|
Post by sarahfox on Dec 27, 2007 10:26:29 GMT 1
Lovely to have you back Trudi! Yes,I agree re the left hand,it would generally be weaker,but would be more clumsy,so Im not sure how that would translate down the reins really,I guess one thing is that it would likely be less active and therefore less inclined to fiddle,but yes,I would think it would have more of a dead feel than the right. Another point worth mentioning there though is that most horses 'hang on' to the right rein and slacken off the contact to the left,supposedly because they are one sided,although Im never totally convinced that its their one sidedness rather than ours!Given that,it could well be greatly beneficial to ride from the left hand only. Totally agree re riding TO the hand,rather than to the seat,I was always taught to ride forward into the hand. I think the reason many people tend to steer away from using the hand,or even the bit altogether is because they havent been taught how to use it properly,Im still working on it now after many years! I do totally agree that there is a wooden feeling from the halter,and you cannot get that lovely soft,conversational feeling that you can from a bit,but I also think its ,much easier to get that if the horse has learnt everything from the halter first,so that when you start with a bit it really is a conversation. Re the loose rein stuff,I do think it is by fer the better way to go than the harsh fiddling that goes on elsewhere,so although it isnt the answer either,perhaps for people who just want to enjoy their horse and hack around it is the best way to go.
Bay mare,I have seen your thread on EE and think it is truly wonderful the way you are teaching! If only there was more teaching like that around!
Heather,Yes,sorry,I keep pinching threads of your forum! I will get round to registering!I will!! I thought that the serrata was spanish,and the sonata portugese? I was told that the sonata was plain metal under leather and therefore softer? which fits with what I have always been told,that the portugese training is not harsh like some of the spanish?
Sx
|
|
|
Post by heather on Dec 27, 2007 16:46:25 GMT 1
Portuguese training can be every bit as harsh as the Spanish, sad to say, Sarah, and all of the serratas I have come across have the serrated metal on the underside, but padded with leather.
I have seen Portuguese bullfight horses with bleeding callouses on the nose from the unpadded variety of serrata, and these can sometimes be an inch in height from the build up of scar tissue.
I dont think that the harsh training is as prevalent as in Spain, but it still occurs in some yards.
I went to look at a farm in the Alentejo a couple of years ago. The owner was a Portuguese lady, her partner, English. She had owned a young horse and wanted him backed. She sent him to a local bullfighter who was supposed to be good at backing and bringing on a youngster.
She had seen him riding a mare, which is quite unusual, and was training her for the bullring, even more unusual, but she was a real fighter and had the temperament he wanted for the ring.
But he deliberately antagonised her, until she fought back so much she became dangerous.
One day, she had been so bad - purely through his own force and nothing to do with the poor mare, that he decided he had had enough of her. The lady who owned the farm had been concerned about her own horse and had arrived to take him away.
The bullfighter told the other guy who worked for him to grab the lady. She was held in a vice like grip, totally unable to move, whilst this bullfighter tied that mare to a ring on the wall, got a sledge hammer and killed the mare, bludgeoning her to death with it.
The lady told us that she still has nightmares about it, and I could see by the look of sheer remembered horror on her face, that she was telling the truth.
Heather
|
|
gemma
Novice Poster
Posts: 1
|
Post by gemma on Dec 27, 2007 17:54:09 GMT 1
Thanks for the link. An interesting article from a really interesting magazine - one that I'm considering subscribing to.
|
|
|
Post by sarahfox on Dec 27, 2007 18:15:03 GMT 1
Oh my god.Heather,that is probably the most awful story I have heard,I feel physically sick.How utterly horrific. I suppose though,the truth is that there are evil people in every country and culture. Poor horse,and poor woman,my heart truly bleeds for them both.
|
|
|
Post by Casper on Dec 27, 2007 18:36:48 GMT 1
The bullfighter told the other guy who worked for him to grab the lady. She was held in a vice like grip, totally unable to move, whilst this bullfighter tied that mare to a ring on the wall, got a sledge hammer and killed the mare, bludgeoning her to death with it.
|
|
trudi
Advanced Poster
Posts: 345
|
Post by trudi on Dec 27, 2007 20:31:06 GMT 1
How utterly dreadful, words fail me Heather!
|
|
trudi
Advanced Poster
Posts: 345
|
Post by trudi on Dec 27, 2007 20:37:35 GMT 1
I guess one thing is that it would likely be less active and therefore less inclined to fiddle,but yes,I would think it would have more of a dead feel than the right. Another point worth mentioning there though is that most horses 'hang on' to the right rein and slacken off the contact to the left,supposedly because they are one sided,although Im never totally convinced that its their one sidedness rather than ours!Given that,it could well be greatly beneficial to ride from the left hand only. Sarah, my experience is that people fiddle more with the left, especially as they don't feel the 'firmness' to gauge themselves against as they do on the right. My OH is left handed and it is interesting when we discuss the difference in feel, although the horses seem to show the same 'avoidances' to straightness with us both, right or left handed rider. This is just the stuff I'd love to work more with in the future, exploring just why/how these things work.
|
|
|
Post by suewhitmore on Dec 27, 2007 20:41:41 GMT 1
Heather, the traditional Portuguese cavesson is the Serrilhão and it has a plain metal band in it. I have one. I'm not saying that most of them don't use the serretto, but they have a kinder article of their own.
|
|
|
Post by suewhitmore on Dec 27, 2007 20:49:27 GMT 1
Oh PS! Why don't people use the cavesson and snaffle method in this country?
Well, hands up all the teachers here who as a matter of course teach:
a) how to shorten reins b) how to lengthen reins c) how to hold two reins in one hand d) how to change the side of a stick, dressage & jumping c) how to hold double reins d) how to shorten double reins e) how to hold double reins in one hand f) how to use *any* reins effectively
If you can put your hand up, other on heart, and say you do all this, AS A MATTER OF COURSE then there is hope for the training of young horses yet.
IBTW was quite shocked at my demo to find a rider who had been riding quite a while, with his own horse, who did not know how to shorten his reins. No one had ever shown him.
|
|
|
Post by heather on Dec 27, 2007 21:36:43 GMT 1
All of that list are things I have to teach on the workshops here, Sue, as it seems, it is almost never taught!
I also use a bit and pair of reins, to get the rider to hold the bit, and me the reins and give them an idea of contact. Likewise, I also get the students to put their hand between my calf and the horse's side, to show them precisely how to use the leg. It is a revelation to them!! Yet, so, so fundamental!!
I rarely see the Serrilhão used to be ridden in though, Sue, as it is heavier in construction than the serreta. All the ones I see in the saddlery shops over there, for ridden use, are the same as the Spanish serreta these days.
I always use the Serrilhao as a lunging cavesson whatever the breed!
Heather
|
|
|
Post by suewhitmore on Dec 27, 2007 21:48:32 GMT 1
All of that list are things I have to teach on the workshops here, Sue, as it seems, it is almost never taught! You're not included, you are exceptional anyway. ;D But of course what I meant to say is the reason people don't use reins well is because most people are never taught enough to give them confidence hadling their reins in a more advanced manner. Ditto, it's lovely. But I was taught a long time ago about riding from a lunge cavesson - not the slippy slidey webbing ones - but the proper well fitting leather ones (of which I have one only, and it fits nothing.....) very similar concept.
|
|
|
Post by sarahfox on Dec 27, 2007 22:43:19 GMT 1
Well Obviously you werent included Heather!!!That was for 'normal' trainers!
Actually I think the student having the reins with the teacher on the other end is a fantastic exercise,really.really important,its just so hard to get it otherwise.
|
|
|
Post by hazelhorse on Dec 27, 2007 23:02:44 GMT 1
I will hold my hand up with other on heart - it drives me mad that people aren't ever taught what a contact should feel like, and what THEY do feels like to the horse. I regularly have everyone I teach create the feel they have on the reins on reins in my hands. I then have them be the horses mouth on the reins and show them the feel they are giving the horse, and then the ideal feel.
So many riders come for lessons saying that their horse can work 'on the bit' but they are having difficulties with x,y or z, but when I watch them ride and feel their rein contact their hands are locked in a tug of war with their horses mouths and constantly fiddling. Their horses of course aren't on the bit they are shuffling along with fixed backs and necks which are rounded up in a cramped position with the horses nose behind the vertical. My bugbear though is, how can the average rider who strives to improve help but think that this may of going is correct when about 95% of dressage horses work in this way, and go on to achieve high marks in competition?
|
|
|
Post by sarahfox on Dec 27, 2007 23:05:46 GMT 1
Its worse than that even hazelhorse,90% of trainers seem to be teaching the wrong ( imo) way too,there are so many people desperate for a decent trainer,and so few about,and imo theres no way that people can progress along the right track without.
|
|
Cheryl Walmsley
No Longer Posts on the DG
This poster can no longer respond to posts or PMs
Hey......I'm eating here!!
Posts: 3,599
|
Post by Cheryl Walmsley on Dec 28, 2007 2:29:54 GMT 1
is it possible for you to explain on here what you mean about how to use reins effectively?
|
|