debutante
Grand Prix Poster
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Post by debutante on Jan 3, 2008 1:01:23 GMT 1
hhhm well ive used my one gues so i will see what everyone else says ??
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2008 9:13:14 GMT 1
In that case no, nuala2, it wasn't an RA who solved, it was me. And yes, anyone could have solved it, like anyone can solve many problems with horses if they start looking in the right direction. But they didn't and they don't. In the case of Fudge, his owner's mum, also a rider, couldn't find the problem. The yard owner just said he was being naughty. The owner's instructor suggested selling him. Yet you would have thought than any of these people could have thought round the problem and solved it, but they didn't.
In a way, Fudge was a bad example to pick on because retelling it now makes it sound so easy to solve. I chose it because it wasn't obvious and because it would illustrate the point that there is some value in someone is trained/ing to think outside the box and to see things from the horse's perspective, and that problems very often aren't what they appear. It wasn't straightforward to find the problem initially, though, it only became obvious when it was there.
And that's the point to the post, Janet, for those who have recently questioned the value of RAs or of the advice that is often given here to get an RA out, problems often aren't what they appear, are often more complex than they seem and involve not just the horse but the whole environment. Until you are there, watching, seeing what the horse does and seeing how he reacts and to what, you're only ever getting a glimpse of the the picture.
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jo
Novice Poster
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Post by jo on Jan 3, 2008 9:52:32 GMT 1
Interesting LizP, I found that book hard going, fascinating but hard going.
Janetgeorge - would your horse be reacting to the owner taking up a contact with rein AS they mount? Whereas where you were mounting you left the rein alone and mounted without touching the horse's mouth? (thinking in Western terms here, where the horse is trained to stand still and not budge without the need for taking the reins as in English riding?)
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Post by june on Jan 3, 2008 11:37:56 GMT 1
I've seen a horse learn to rear when being mounted. Its owner took up a firm contact as he got on and the horse would go backwards so he'd have someone hold its head so the only option the horse had was to go up. He ended up selling the horse to someone else who never had the problem as he left the reins alone when getting on board.
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Post by janetgeorge on Jan 3, 2008 14:43:02 GMT 1
Janetgeorge - would your horse be reacting to the owner taking up a contact with rein AS they mount? Whereas where you were mounting you left the rein alone and mounted without touching the horse's mouth? (thinking in Western terms here, where the horse is trained to stand still and not budge without the need for taking the reins as in English riding?) I always keep a contact while mounting - but this girl was something else. After 3 days I rang Daddy and said I needed to see girl ride. !"She's not getting on THAT thing again!" he said. I assured him that wasn't the plan. I pulled out the quietest, stodgiest, most bombproof cob we had and she nearly pulled HIM over!! She stuck her foot in his ribs, he moved a step, she nearly toppled over backwards and started to HAUL herself up by the reins!! The mare was a bit TOO sensitive - so we gave the girl mounting lessons and took the mare in part-ex on a bomb-proof WHP! Mare went on to be a very good junior jumper for a teenager who could ride (and mount!) Thank goodness the farrier persuaded Daddy to send the mare to us before he shot it (and he would have!) There are NO bad horses!!
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Post by Geordie Horse on Jan 3, 2008 15:04:49 GMT 1
TBH I would have called an RA at the outset, but thats because I'm a newbie and don't have enough experience. Interestingly, when I was grooming Bertie last night, one of the young girls started to mount her horse at the block and he wouldn't stand still. I offered to hold his head-Bertie was tied up and had his head in a haynet anyway, but the girl said no thanks. She put one foot in the stirrup and really struggled to get on as the horse sauntered off. She managed, but I really thought if that was me I would have dismounted and made him stand still till I got on, IMO that horser now thinks its ok to walk away when his rider is getting on
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Post by iceberg on Jan 3, 2008 15:05:10 GMT 1
This has been very interesting, and I confess to not knowing 'the answer' to LizP's question But having read all the posts it has remined me of something I saw on tv about a year ago.
A woman in America, works as a consultant for the big fast food chains, Mcdonalds etc, and her job is to make sure the cattle are slaughtered in the best of conditions and the most humane way possible. She went to a few yards to see how the cattle were treated, and the only complaint she had was they were getting stessed going from the pens down a 'walkway' to the slaughterhouse.
As she imo quite rightly said, they are going for meat, but we should make it as least stressful and painfree as possible.
After a lot of investigation, she said that it wasnt smell of death, noises that was scaring the cattle and she couldnt figure it out.
So early one morning she went to the yard and walked up the 'walkway' on her hands and knees so to see what the cows were seeing. She noticed that the concrete floor had shiny bits in it, and she knew then that was what was stopping the cattle from walking quietly up the chute. The lead cow would spook, therefore sending messages to the others that 'something' was there.
So the company recovered the floor and the cows walked quietly along it after that.
So my point is, as has been said before, to look at things from the animals point of view, sometimes this means literally and not hyperthetically.
Sorry its a bit off the subject, but I think it illustrates the points being made.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2008 15:06:31 GMT 1
Your last post proves the point, Janet, that an expert pair of eyes are of value and are worth paying for. In your case, with your knowledge and experience, you don't need anyone else, but many others do. Hence to the original reason behind the thread: when someone suggests getting out and RA (this is IH, after all ), it's not just to push IH or line the pockets of a chosen few, it is because they solve problems and that, to my mind, is worth paying for the same as you'd pay for your chiropractor. Iceberg, the lady you're talking about is Temple Grandin, who wrote the book I referred to. That book is about her work with the US meat industry, including the rapist roosters. That's got to intrigue you into reading it, hasn't it?
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Post by pinkpony on Jan 3, 2008 15:14:10 GMT 1
A good point OP, I think that alot of horse owners are happy to shell out for fix it gaddgets, feeds and suppliments, but are reluctant to pay out for deccent practical help....from proffessionals no less!! I think that you can learn alot from a good RA. But I suppose their not always right...but mostly.
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Post by geeup on Jan 3, 2008 15:19:03 GMT 1
good point Liz, but as I said i my reply, I'd watch and observe, don't think I'd have worked it out though. This is the one my daughter worked out.
She was bringing in her friends pony one winter night. The pony lead fine, reached the stable and stopped dead, feet firmly planted. What did my daughter do next that meant the pony went straight in without hessitating?
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Post by iceberg on Jan 3, 2008 15:23:36 GMT 1
Yes, now youve said that Liz I remember her name. Absolutley fascinating documentary about her. She is a really clever lady. I'll keep an eye out for the book.x
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jo
Novice Poster
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Post by jo on Jan 3, 2008 19:17:55 GMT 1
geeup, she put the light on in the stable? showed him his dinner was in there?
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Post by janetgeorge on Jan 3, 2008 19:32:50 GMT 1
geeup, she put the light on in the stable? showed him his dinner was in there? Ah HA! I just came back to suggest she put the light on (or off! - I have one who prefers to walk into the stable when the light ISN'T on - doesn't like going from dark to light! )
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Post by geeup on Jan 3, 2008 19:45:42 GMT 1
yep, well done, she put the light off, horse couldn't adjust light in time. I like these any one got another one? Good thread LizP, shows us we often need help even in everyday situations.
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Post by janetgeorge on Jan 3, 2008 19:51:23 GMT 1
yep, well done, she put the light off, horse couldn't adjust light in time. I like these any one got another one? Good thread LizP, shows us we often need help even in everyday situations. Mmm ... try this one. Horse being backed - patiently, kindly, conventionally. Took rider lying over saddle, being led forward a couple of strides, getting off. Getting back on, sitting up, led forward a few strides, etc. But 6 strides was her limit - after 6 strides she bolted, bucking wildly, handler COULDN'T hold her and rider was thrown. Back to basics again, all steps repeated - same result. What did we do?
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