Catching a kicking weanling

[highlanderpony2002]

How would you go about catching a weanling that kicks if you touch it. Walking down is not an option as once you touch it it turns and double barrels you. It is fed hard feed and will eat from your hand. Won't accept a headcollar though.

[xxx]

Is it in a stable or field? No h/c on I presume? In a group or not?

[highlanderpony2002]

In the field 6 acres no respect for electric tape and no headcollar as she was fine but is now refusing to wear it and kicking she has won round one but I have to get her as I cannot get her feet and worming done next time if I don't get her soon. She missed the farrier on thursday as she wouldn't be caught. In with an old mare with a yearling and two year old in the next paddock

[xxx]

Maybe she needs to be brought in for a couple of days into a stable to get some handling done? You may need to 'herd' her and the mare into the stable, is this possible? Then she might be easier to get a h/c on and deal with.

[highlanderpony2002]

Not really unless we build a wooden pen in the field which was our plan her field is 400 yards along the road from the nearest stable

[spanishmustangsuk]

Sounds like she has gone a bit feral. If you had a lariat, I would say rope her, but that is unlikely.
Do you have a carrot stick?(Natural Horsemanship device- stick with a 6 ft line on it) If not, make one out of a firm stick and baling twine. Take it, and a long rope into the field, along with some feed to get their interest. If you can, start rubbing her with the stick, all around the neck, holding on to the line. Eventually let the line hang looser, so you have a kind of noose. Try to slip the noose over her head and hang onto both stick and string.( If she turns her bum toward you as you are trying this and threatens, flick the rope at her, or tap her butt with the stick. The stick should be long enough for you to stay out of harms way. A dressage whip will do, or broomstick if you have nothing else.) Alternatively, if you let the string hang down, and get the stick over head and neck, and then bring it under and over her head again, that will also work. When you have control of her front end with said device, you can work the rope around her neck, and bring her in. Do plenty of handling with her, preferably in a round pen, to get the hindquarters disengaged. Parelli's "Catching game" really helps show you the principles of the pressure and release when catching a horse.
I am only suggesting this as she is a weanling. An older horse with the same problem would need some different handling.
Oh and have plenty of time for this, take all day to catch her if neccessary. Plenty of rubbing on the neck with the stick, so she isn't afraid of it.
What is the older mare doing? If she also runs off, then try to separate them, as she is teaching the weanling bad habits.
And most of all, keep it friendly. The stick isn't for beating her up when you get frustrated. She is likely just playing with you, as she has no one else to play with.
If you get angry because she is giving you the run around, just take a deep breath and smile, or go off and have a cup of tea...then come back and start again.
A Spanish Mustang breeder once told me in the early days, before I became a little wiser with the catching thing. "Don't go in there with the intention of catching them, they can read your mind." Very true,...just go in there to play with her and spend some time (catching will be a by product)...keep smiling.

[janetgeorge]

highlanderpony2002 said:

It is fed hard feed and will eat from your hand. Won't accept a headcollar though.

Have you tried offering feed from your hand or small bucket and while he is eating, slip a lunge line around his neck, clip the rein back to itself to make a noose and hang on??? (But NOT if he's huge!) Provided the noose is high - right behind the ears - you SHOULD be able to keep pulling his head towards you until he gives in (maybe - I'd far rather do it in a yard but HAVE managed in a field with quite a big monster!)

The other two alternatives:

1. If you have a SENSIBLE riding horse you could ride up alongside and perhaps get a noose around its neck. Not really a helpful suggestion because unless your horse is either used to roping - or bombproof - you could end up with a real tug of war (assuming you can get the rope on.)

2. The other one - pending building a yard - is if you know or can find someone with some mesh panels (the big 6 foot high ones that builders use around sites - that sit in big rubber or concrete blocks. You can often pick them up second hand for less than a tenner each. Make a small yard and lure him in there with food and his companion. Then you can use a long handled feather duster - or similar - to handle him all over from a bit of distance until he gets bored. Could take some time - so set a day aside. But it DOES work - they eventually get bored with moving away from - or kicking - something that just keeps coming back!

[anon]

make a yard, as JG suggests...

or get a vet with a sedative in a dart.....


I've seen the lassoo method used - wasn't pretty, but was effective. The filly didnt give up till she ran out of air. There again - it took quite a while for her to get confident with ropes around her neck after that

[Catrin]

You need somehow to contrive a small secure area. Then, once you have her captive in it, you can make progress, using one or more of the methods above. Once you can show her that you can move her body where you want it to be, you will have earned her respect.

If you say, that she likes her hard feed, is with company and ignores electric fencing to keep her in. How about making a small feeding area for the others will electric fencing, but try to use it and your body language to keep her out. Once she realises that you can control where she is and what she does, she will probably give you more attention.

Another alternative is clicker training, but in the case of a foal like you describe, you need to have had some experience of using it with other horses or dogs to know how to use it well. You don't want to end up with a youngster that no longer kicks you because now it is biting you instead.

Final suggestion is there a RA near you?

[Deleted]

If you are out of your depth on this, I would seriously suggest you get someone more experienced out to help you. Click on Horse Help up to the right and find your nearest RA.

I don't want to knock other people's ideas but some of the suggestions here sound quite dangerous to me. I would not suggest trying to lassoo around its neck, certainly not from another horse and not in such a large area. Just run through in your mind what could go wrong, the list is fairly long, including you getting pulled off the other horse, the noose tightening around your filly's neck, etc. In expert hands, maybe fine, but not if this is your first try. It's not as easy as it sounds.

Please do not use builders panels to make a pen, especially with a horse that kicks. Not only do you have concrete blocks to fall over, these panels are not built to withstand a horse kick. I have a friend whose horse is lucky to have lived to tell the tale, but it does have a very nasty scar around its fetlock.

The idea of desensitising with a stick is fine as long as you can get that far, and in a 6 acre field you may just end up with you and your stick at one end and a filly at the other. It also won't help if she still takes it in her head to double barrel you.

To my mind, it sounds like this one has just trained you to give it food, then get out of its way. Personally, I'd ditch the hand feeding, then work with the standard advance and retreat/pressure and release method. The objective should be to teach your filly that doing things your way is easier for her than doing it hers. Beyond that, it is extremely hard to describe exactly what to do, though, as it is a question of reading the horse and responding appropriately.

So please consider getting your local RA out. Even if the nearest is a distance off the the milage may be steep, one session should set you up to be better able to cope with this current problem and future ones too.

[ponytails]

im glad someone else has said this i was worried about being jumped on i agree with liz do not lasso if you do , first ask yourself do you want to risk breaking this fillys neck because there necks are very delicate until they have tuned two !! if you can get some friends together to make a corral and herd her in leading old mae in first , and aagain dont use builders panels these are not safe, failling all this can someone drive a trailer into the field , put some boards up and make an allay way/shute type thing and herd her in with food and maybe the old mare , then put her into a stable till feet are done then turn her into small paddock untill she has come back round, you will need lots of friends/help for this , and i would also get in an RA, good luck

[SarahW]

I agree with Liz P entirely. Whenever you do anything with horses you have to ask yourself what can go wrong? Using a lariat or noose is really risky. If the horse runs away it not only learns that it can break free (an excellent way to begin a habit of bolting) but it may be so terrified that it will go through fencing on the way. I have met a pony that it now petrified of ropes as a result of this and another that could never be long lined for the same reason. I was also called out to a lady whose pony had gone straight through some electric fencing when someone had "lasooed" it, the rope had got around the pony's front legs and then around the pony's tummy. The guy (who was being paid!!) then stopped the pony by fastening the end of the rope around a tree whereupon the pony turned upside down in a ditch. The woman said she had never heard a pony screaming the way it did.

The safest thing to do is to make a secure enclosed area - borrowing a round pen and making it square is the best place to start if you haven't got stables. A good round pen will have room for you to roll out under the panels if there is a real emergency and also a gate. I too recommend advance and retreat (Join-Up does not work with untouched ponies) and using a false hand on a long stick to touch the pony first. There's a bit of an art to this so it may be best to have an RA out to show you how. All of the RA's have completed the handling untouched horse course.

Whatever you do, set yourself up to succeed - it's a bit like wallpapering, preparation is everything!

And finally, try not to think of this as a boxing match (first rounds etc.)... she is only doing what her mummy, God and instinct tell her to. It's not natural for a flight animal to allow it's head to be captured.

I have a lot of sympathy for you - I'm working with a 7 year old Exmoor stallion straight off the moor and he is not convinced he needs me at all!

[janetgeorge]

lizp said:

Please do not use builders panels to make a pen, especially with a horse that kicks. Not only do you have concrete blocks to fall over, these panels are not built to withstand a horse kick. I have a friend whose horse is lucky to have lived to tell the tale, but it does have a very nasty scar around its fetlock.

The decent heavy duty ones are quite safe - I made a playpen out of them for my 17 hh RID stallion - before we built a 'proper' yard - and he regularly pawed the panels, rubbed up on them etc. with no problem apart from a bit of bending in the frames. As a temporary measure to allow this youngster to be caught they'll be more than adequate for the job - particularly when using an extended arm/advance and retreat methods. And far safer than electric fence because they present a high, and visible barrier. Obviously, a 'proper' round pen would be better and safer but if highlanderpony2002 can't borrow one - and get transport for it - it's going to be a VERY expensive way of solving the problem.

[sueabbery]

Have you any access to stables down the rd or very close to you?
If you have ask the police/highways to close the rd for you when you want to make a move.If rd is a little back rd just hold the traffic up from both directions with the help of friends Take the other horses out for 24 hrs and then take the mare back open the gate and let the youngster follow the mare. Do it nice and quietly do not crowd the youngster so she sees no threat and take it from there. If you are worried about leaving youngster on it's own take the 3rd horse out leave her buddy if it's easy to catch and lead and just feed the 2 by the gate in the morning then lead the buddy out and let youngster follow. I had to resort to this with a complete bagage of a mare I had at stud many yrs ago. Had to move everyone elso from the field so she was billy no mates and take a friend back the next day. Rd was blocked from yard to field and from field to yard in both directions. This enabled us to get her to the yard and stabled all within 20 mins. As soon as she was in the stable headcollar on reward given owner rung to come collect her.(who then looked at the mare in amazement and asked how the hell did you catch her we can't catch her at home?)

[highlanderpony2002]

We live in a small village miles from anywhere and yes it would possibly be feasible to close the road but I would be very worried as we have a few junctions between the field and the yard/stables. I have a pen of panels but was a bit reluctant to use it as I was a bit concerned about how flimsy they may be I have used them before for catching a colt that didn't kick but perhaps I am chicken but I don't fancy being kicked in a confined area I will use them if I can make them really safe but OH plans to build a post and rail 3 rail pen 12x12 in the hedged corner of the field and we will lead the old mare in and hope the filly will follow close the gate and get a headcollar back on. I hope she doesnt get caught up with it as if she gets it off again I will be back to square one. Thank you all for your suggestions I have considered them all carefull. I have 40 years of handling foals from wild as coots from the welsh sales to hand reared ones this is the first kicker I have had to deal with and personally feel plenty experienced enough to deal with her. She is just very willful and will need to learn as quietly and firmly as possible that I am in charge and she must listen and behave accordingly. I have no plans to beat her silly, knock her about or knock three bells out of her to prove the point. I do not and will not enter into a fight with her but she will be as sane and friendly as all the other babies I have reared if a bit more challenging. I will box her if necessary but again I prefer them to have a horsey life of out 24/7 and a herd to play and live with. She had a couple of months on the livery yard going in at night and out during the day but she hasn't wanted to stay humanised so will need further training as she grows up. Need to be able to get her for worming and the farrier and of course should she need rescuing if she get in trouble or needs a vet. I might even send her away for a bit of production if she needs it but I have not failed yet.