|
|
Post by troop on Aug 8, 2014 15:38:37 GMT 1
Okidokey so i just found out Baffle has never seen a dentist in his ten years so no wonder he was confused. Anyway my dentist is awesome but she couldnt even get near him with the small finger rasp without him going up in the air she asked me to work on him getting him used to me near his mouth etc which i can do but obviously i dont think it will make a blind bit of difference when dentist returns as Baff automatically goes back to square one with nigh on everything we do. Everytime he sees a hose he frights, everytime he sees fly spray he goes nuts. I work with him and he stands for whatever it is im attacking him with but i feel he is gradually losing confidence in me. He gets worse not better with a lot of things so what the heck do i do? He is very quick to react so for instance i can walk to him with the fly spray groom him and spray it near him then at him but now we have gone to me not being able to hold the bottle near him he freaks if he hears/smells it and its a quiet spray he runs when i spray the others (they stand free no problem) i had to spray it on brush and walk up to him (he freaked the first time, see just an ordinary brush he sees most days so i guess smell plays a part). He ran away today when he saw headcollar but then came back when he realised he was split from his Dets and waited whilst i put it on him but he wasnt happy. I was giving him a good brush loose in yard this morning and he was his usual chilled self but then will just spark and go poof then go back to normal again. He is having Bruce Hewitt back again next week as i feel after freaking at trailer he may have tweaked himself again (maybe he keeps getting shooting pains? ) i darent do much with him at minute as he is very unpredictable again.
Timmy by the way is doing well, just in case anyone wondered he still the same but i had to laugh this morning as i had him out on our grass verge and when i wanted him back in his paddock i said his name and he looked at me and i pointed where i wanted him to go and he shook his mane and sashayed back to his field.
|
|
|
|
Post by janwilky on Aug 8, 2014 18:29:39 GMT 1
I was giving him a good brush loose in yard this morning and he was his usual chilled self but then will just spark and go poof then go back to normal again. He is having Bruce Hewitt back again next week as i feel after freaking at trailer he may have tweaked himself again (maybe he keeps getting shooting pains? ) i darent do much with him at minute as he is very unpredictable again. Obviously I don't know Baffle Troop, but I now believe that most of Lucas's explosive behaviour has been pain-related, and the more I've addressed physical issues with him the more his behaviour has improved and the less of a short fuse he seems to be on. The biggest change has been since I treated him "as though" he had ulcers (i.e. I didn't put him through the stress of being scoped but I treated him for ulcers), and I now suspect that whatever the original cause of his stress/anxiety (ill treatment as a youngster or whatever it was) led him to have a chronic underlying gut pain issue which flared up now and again. Whenever it flared up we had over-the-top reactions to minor stimuli and poof! off he went again. He's still a bit more reactive than a horse of his type should be perhaps, but he hasn't lost the plot for ages and even when he reacts now it's more of a thinking response, he doesn't lose it completely and I can handle him through it. I haven't tested the theory under saddle yet lol, but on the ground he's increasingly a cool dude and much more like he should be. I'm not saying Baffle is necessarily the same, though ulcers are awfully common, but if he's tweaked himself that might be making him more unpredictable again too so I'm sure you're right to start by having your osteopath back again. They do keep us on our toes these challenging ones don't they  |
|
|
|
Post by happysnail on Aug 8, 2014 18:38:00 GMT 1
I think sometimes a horse will accept a challenge (something they are scared of or worried about) when the adrenaline is up. Once they realise it hasn't killed them and that additional adrenaline has burned off they actually need to experience, process and generalise that learning. It's that whole adrenaline up learning down thing. So even if they are brave they won't learn optimally and I think that's were you can see 'regression' sometimes, even if nothing else has changed. It can also mean go back steps further away than you started - does that makes sense?
|
|
|
|
Post by troop on Aug 8, 2014 19:59:27 GMT 1
But he has the high adrenaline freak out then accepts it then accepts it a few times in a row but if I ho back to it the following day it's exactly as if I never fun anything the day before its like it lasts 24hrs. Weirdly I did consider ulcers and I may go down that route soon if after his osteopath treatment doesn't help. Thanks guys x
|
|
|
|
Post by bertie666 on Aug 8, 2014 20:01:35 GMT 1
Domosedan is probably the only answer for the dentist - needs a good 40 mins after you've given it of just leaving them alone and calm for it to take effect. Agree with Jan re pain but also highly recommend trying Equifeast CCC as have had a huge improvement with Whins explosiveness on that, she also seems to need the extra tryptophan. www.equifeast.com/equifeast-catalog/united-kingdom/cool-calm-collected-loader |
|
|
|
Post by troop on Aug 9, 2014 7:18:50 GMT 1
Thanks guys i had been thinking about the possibility of ulcers yesterday funny enough and will go down that route if Bruces visit doesnt improve matters again. I feel we were going great guns but the trailer upset and my injury have set us back. Bertie is the domosedan something the vet will have to administer or can i feed it?
|
|
|
|
Post by portiabuzz on Aug 9, 2014 8:55:39 GMT 1
I hope you get to the bottom of this xxxx
Sent from my GT-I8160
|
|
|
|
Post by bertie666 on Aug 9, 2014 9:30:44 GMT 1
Buy it from the vets but you give it like a wormer. I practised with a syringe and minty water (dissolved an extra strong in water) for a couple of weeks then when i went with the domosedan she wasn't at all suspicious  |
|
|
|
Post by janwilky on Aug 9, 2014 9:42:28 GMT 1
Thanks guys i had been thinking about the possibility of ulcers yesterday funny enough and will go down that route if Bruces visit doesnt improve matters again. I feel we were going great guns but the trailer upset and my injury have set us back. Bertie is the domosedan something the vet will have to administer or can i feed it? It's a funny thing Troop, I think even very experienced people are only just beginning to realise how common ulcers are and how many behavioural problems can be caused or exacerbated by them. If I had my time again I'd spend a lot less time and money on training with Lucas and a lot more on sorting his pain issues. I've learned a lot though  I had him with a lovely NH trainer for six months in 2010. Even at the time I suspected there was some sort of pain connection with him, and I even considered hindgut issues because he was often unsound on the right hind. But the trainer, who I still have a lot of time for, lectured me repeatedly that he was physically absolutely fine and I was wasting my money and it could end up being a bottomless pit if I went that route. Well she was right about that! But she was very wrong about pain not being an issue for him. She said he was simply the sharpest horse she'd ever trained (and she re-trained ex-racers for bread-and-butter!). The funny thing is that the more comfortable he's got in his body the more like a cob he has become.... But before that I went through several vets, X-rays, bodywork etc etc before coming full circle and starting to read seriously about ulcer and hindgut symptoms and then pennies started dropping in my mind. It was thanks to a couple of people on this forum and Phoenixhorse who got me thinking along those lines, but none of the vets I've consulted about him ever suggested it as a possibility - until I mentioned it to my current vet who is young and quite forward-thinking, and she didn't seem surprised at all. But by then I'd sorted it without her help! Hope you get to the bottom of it with Baffle |
|
|
|
Post by troop on Aug 10, 2014 8:46:04 GMT 1
What's the thing to use now I used gastrix with Troopa when he was poorly years ago.
My worry is bertie am I going to do him more damage as his reaction to the syringe is very violent and his poll was damaged last time Bruce visited and after the rearing at the trailer I feel it is probably the same now. I have him on a nice long line and as soon as he sees the string he runs back or up I calmly work until I can rest it on his mouth but he is usually runni.g back up and wherever else he wants to go then he drops his head I syringe it in and he just stands there it all has a pattern. With the hose I catch him he stands he sees hose he panics hose turns on he runs in circles fast then goes back then stands I trickle water on him he runs a few circles then stands still and is good as gold. It's like he has already learned some sort of alternative for how life goes. I will try some apple sauce if some mints and try as much as possible until Wednesday when Bruce arrives then hopefully we might not do any damage to anywhere that is worked on. I'm a worry wort aren't I.....
|
|
|
|
Post by crazycolt on Aug 10, 2014 10:05:47 GMT 1
Sorry if this is teaching grandma to suck eggs, but you have done the approach/retreat with the fly spray? I've had to do this with both Will and Mogs, with Will it took about 3 years, with Mogs only 2! |
|
|
|
Post by troop on Aug 10, 2014 12:34:28 GMT 1
I use the approach retreat with everything he just doesn't not settle. Sorry I probably don't explain myself very well in my posts. I make it sound like I just go in and do it lol. Louse powder 3 hrs it took to get it on with a body brush and get him used to me using a bot comb. He will freak again if tomorrow I got a boy egg knife out even though he was fine when I finished the last time. He was good as gold today very chilled and sharing a biscuit or two with me.
|
|
|
|
Post by bertie666 on Aug 10, 2014 14:03:38 GMT 1
Def get that equifeast stuff and add the optimax a couple of days before a big trauma like dentist its helped whin a lot.
|
|
|
|
Post by portiabuzz on Aug 10, 2014 17:01:31 GMT 1
Sending hugs in support xx
Sent from my GT-I8160
|
|
|
|
Post by troop on Aug 10, 2014 19:41:17 GMT 1
Cheers guys I have had chance to look at link now bertie thanks
|
|
