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Post by kizi on Feb 9, 2012 0:05:19 GMT 1
Janwilky what a strong and encouraging post. Nearly brought a tear to my eye n all. True pure IH!
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Post by daviesbaby20 on Feb 9, 2012 0:21:34 GMT 1
Sorry, didn't mean to make you cry!! Good luck with him - keep following your gut feelings and listening to your horse, and keep yourself safe. Jan Dont apologise i was crying in a good way because i felt that i wasnt alone in feeling the way i had been and a weight lifted from my shoulders We had a huge step forward the other day I bought a stall guard for the front of his stable and when he went into his stable for the first time of it being up he flew to the back snorting and was literally frightened of it. It was tea time so i offered him his food in his bucket by holding it underneath the guard but inside his stable it took him about 5/10 minutes o snorting and glaring but step by step he moved towards me and finally with neck outstretched took the first mouthful looking into my eyes all the while for reassurance this made me well up because hed trusted me that it was ok and the scary stable guard wasnt going to make him dinner ! Baby steps but were getting there and although he has been narly i feel hea been closer to me and more willing to follow my lead over the past couple of days !!! Who thought a stable guard could build our relationship so much !!!!!!
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Post by daviesbaby20 on Feb 9, 2012 0:23:37 GMT 1
Sorry, didn't mean to make you cry!! Good luck with him - keep following your gut feelings and listening to your horse, and keep yourself safe. Jan Dont apologise i was crying in a good way because i felt that i wasnt alone in feeling the way i had been and a weight lifted from my shoulders We had a huge step forward the other day I bought a stall guard for the front of his stable and when he went into his stable for the first time of it being up he flew to the back snorting and was literally frightened of it. It was tea time so i offered him his food in his bucket by holding it underneath the guard but inside his stable it took him about 5/10 minutes o snorting and glaring but step by step he moved towards me and finally with neck outstretched took the first mouthful looking into my eyes all the while for reassurance this made me well up because hed trusted me that it was ok and the scary stable guard wasnt going to make him dinner ! Baby steps but were getting there and although he has been narly i feel hea been closer to me and more willing to follow my lead over the past couple of days !!! Who thought a stable guard could build our relationship so much !!!!!! Ooooo ive also started him back on the rigcalm too !! When i told mum about your post on the phone she was like ok so whats her number and where does she live lol x
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Post by janwilky on Feb 10, 2012 0:29:06 GMT 1
So glad to hear you've had a couple of encouraging things happen - small steps is definitely the way to go . And so glad you found my story encouraging - I feel like I've seriously been through the mill with mine over the last two years, so if our experiences can encourage someone else going through similar stuff then that's brilliant. Will look forward to hearing how you're getting on and whether the Rigcalm makes a difference.
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Post by daviesbaby20 on Feb 10, 2012 0:55:12 GMT 1
So glad to hear you've had a couple of encouraging things happen - small steps is definitely the way to go . And so glad you found my story encouraging - I feel like I've seriously been through the mill with mine over the last two years, so if our experiences can encourage someone else going through similar stuff then that's brilliant. Will look forward to hearing how you're getting on and whether the Rigcalm makes a difference. Started back with the rigcalm and as last time am getting really quick results with it !!! Hes already offering slobbery kisses again these were definitely out this time last week lol Your experiences really have given me renewed encouragement to work through this step back and have picked up perfect manners again to have a refresh so going to go right back to basics and find out what i did wrong Thanks so much again Jan from the bottom of my heart Ps tommy said thanks too cause he said his mummy was struggling a bit x
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Post by ladyndibs on Feb 10, 2012 4:31:48 GMT 1
I've been following your quite scary thread as I have a mare that has issues but in a completely differant way.
It was lovely to read Janwilky's story as the feeling of being unable to deal with your horse is bad enough but to be hurt as well when you are only trying to do your best seems to make it worse especially as it often seems like you're the only one it's happening to. Moral support and knowing someone understands exactly what you're going through can make a huge differance.
I was thrilled to read you have been getting slobbery kisses, the whole tone of your post has changed, so much more positive and confident, I really hope it continues and look forward to hearing more about your progress, hopefully with some pics as well.
Good luck.
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Post by daviesbaby20 on Feb 10, 2012 10:47:24 GMT 1
Ladyanddibs thanks for your post i felt like i was in a scary place i would t say that he is beyond my experience id just got to a point where i didnt know what else to do and was a little despairing of the whole situation ! I really had got into such a bad place but jans experiences have really helped renew my conviction that i CAN get through this and i WILL find a way to make his life easier and make it easier for him to make the right choices which in turn will make my life with him easier im Under no illusions that will still have a long journey ahead of us and that theres innevitably going to be further set backs in the future where i make mistakes but hope that he will forgive and let me try again or bad choices that he himself makes but i have no doubt we will get there in the end x
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Post by janwilky on Feb 10, 2012 17:58:47 GMT 1
As Ladyndibs says you are sounding so much more positive now - that's brill! I know what you mean about him being beyond your experience - mine was too and it's been hard. There's only two choices as I see it: either sell/give the horse to someone who does have the experience, or pick up the gauntlet and treat it as a massive learning curve (with help, of course, where you need it). That's what I decided to do and I don't regret it for a second, but I do still make mistakes all the time. What I find is that making mistakes is OK, horses forgive us, the important thing is to learn from them and do things differently so you don't keep making the same ones and dig yourself into an ever deeper hole. It also helps to think positively and assume you are getting it right until it's obvious that you're not. That sounds weird but I think I spent a lot of time being so scared to get it wrong that I wasn't decisive enough, and that got my horse really worried and made him want to take over because I wasn't being a good leader.
Something that's been happening with mine this week is a good example of this. I've been taking my boy out for walks in hand and he's been getting better and better (I used not to be able to lead him across the field and he's lurched from nappy to explosive in the past so we've come a long way already). But over the last week or two we've been having 'discussions' about him wanting to snatch at grass where we have to go through a gateway and across quite a lush field. I was determined to stop him doing this as he was being quite rude and bargy about it, but over a period of days it was in danger of descending into a fight - it was more than about the grass, that whole section of the walk was becoming a nightmare, he was starting to nip again and I wasn't getting anywhere because he's too downright strong, even in a Dually. I stopped and thought about it and my thinking process went along the lines of, firstly, I should have some empathy for how he's feeling - there is no grass in his field, he's a bit hungry, he's been on a diet all winter and then I ask him to walk calmly across a lush green field. It's a bit like taking a child into a sweet shop, spreading all the sweeties out in front of them and then saying 'sorry, you can't have any, they're all bad for you!' - and being surprised at the ensuing tantrum! Then smacking and shouting at the child for losing it!
Once I realised that I figured that I needed to be the one to decide we weren't going to get into a fight about it, even if it meant he got some grass. So when he pulled away and got his head down I didn't reprimand him or try to pull him up, I waited a couple of seconds then slid my boot under his nose gently until his head came up, then calmly asked him to walk on. I had to do this a few times and resist the temptation to tell him off when he objected to my new tactic - I tried to be very non-confrontational but determined, thinking of keeping my energy strong but quiet and down low in my pelvis (if that makes any sense - just my weird way of thinking about it). It took a couple of days, but then suddenly he was thinking about lurching for grass but deciding against it when I said 'no' rather than using his strength against me to go for it anyway. I'm not saying that he'll never dive for the grass again (he's a cob for goodness sake!), but the point is that getting confrontational about it wasn't going to get us anywhere, and I'd rather be able to go out for a peaceful walk and have a bit of a laugh at myself when he outsmarts me than to get so focussed on that one 'issue' that it undermines the relationship we've built up and makes our excursions a misery for us both. Also, my technique may not have been perfect, and others may have better ideas for stopping the grass snatching, but the important thing is to decide what you're going to do and then do it calmly and with conviction. If it doesn't work, at least you can think again and try something else without having to regain lost trust first.
Blimey, in danger of getting way too philosophical here - time to go and feed two hungry horses! ;D
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Post by ladyndibs on Feb 10, 2012 18:34:05 GMT 1
The sense of calm determination you're speaking of Jan was how I got Lady to go from almost kicking her own tummy on the opposite side to her leg to a real sweetie with hoof picking. I knew there was no-one else to do it and I had to get on with it. She wasn't trying to hurt me at all she just didn't trust me, everyday I did the same routine with her feet very calm very measured, she used to lift her foot so quick (she's got size 12's) that there was always a risk of being kicked accidently. I never raised my voice but if she wouldn't lift it nicely, I don't mean perfectly but just a little less quick I briskly backed her up three paces then when she stood I gave her a scratch and we'd start over again. Have to say Silky and Dibs are very good as well or they'll sulk I don't doubt there were other/better ways but I'm fairly new to this horse malarky and not always very confident but the attitude of WE WILL DO THIS EVEN IF IT TAKES ALL DAY, seems to have worked as she is the easiest of my three regarding feet even with the farrier she's the best behaved.
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Post by daviesbaby20 on Feb 10, 2012 20:25:09 GMT 1
Ladyanddibs well done !!!!!!
Bit of an update i did some basic IH exercises with tommy tonight just the i move my feet then you can move yours and you are able to do i in your own space and omg he was brill !!!!!!! I also did the moving over exercise which would have earned me a kick last week and he just did it with no argument im falling in love with him all over again We were doing them for about 15 /20 minutes and had the licking and chewing also head lowering and yawning it was fab
I used to be able to spend hours just grooming him fussing him and preening him and have really missed it and the closeness of it
Ive even managed to pick his hooves groom his legs and brush his tail out mega achievement as last time i tried this he tried to kill me !!!!
Looking back i think this issue was probably caused by my actions and a loss of trust
Also tonight when i was rugging him up / babying him lol rather than try to bite me he was KISSING ME !!!!! I was astounded !!!! A little wary to start with but he really does seem to be coming round again he even lowered his head right down tonight it all seems to be happening at once !!!
Im sooooooo pleased with him x
I cant thank you enough for all your kind comments they are helping me so much to know im not alone x x
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Post by Serenbean & Justine on Feb 10, 2012 20:50:37 GMT 1
If there was a like button for your latest posts daviesbaby20, I would be pressing it. Well done for asking for advice. X
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rowanrachel
Olympic Poster
Life is better when you share it with Horses :-)
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Post by rowanrachel on Feb 10, 2012 21:21:03 GMT 1
Something that's been happening with mine this week is a good example of this. I've been taking my boy out for walks in hand and he's been getting better and better (I used not to be able to lead him across the field and he's lurched from nappy to explosive in the past so we've come a long way already). But over the last week or two we've been having 'discussions' about him wanting to snatch at grass where we have to go through a gateway and across quite a lush field. I was determined to stop him doing this as he was being quite rude and bargy about it, but over a period of days it was in danger of descending into a fight - it was more than about the grass, that whole section of the walk was becoming a nightmare, he was starting to nip again and I wasn't getting anywhere because he's too downright strong, even in a Dually. I stopped and thought about it and my thinking process went along the lines of, firstly, I should have some empathy for how he's feeling - there is no grass in his field, he's a bit hungry, he's been on a diet all winter and then I ask him to walk calmly across a lush green field. It's a bit like taking a child into a sweet shop, spreading all the sweeties out in front of them and then saying 'sorry, you can't have any, they're all bad for you!' - and being surprised at the ensuing tantrum! Then smacking and shouting at the child for losing it! Once I realised that I figured that I needed to be the one to decide we weren't going to get into a fight about it, even if it meant he got some grass. So when he pulled away and got his head down I didn't reprimand him or try to pull him up, I waited a couple of seconds then slid my boot under his nose gently until his head came up, then calmly asked him to walk on. I had to do this a few times and resist the temptation to tell him off when he objected to my new tactic - I tried to be very non-confrontational but determined, thinking of keeping my energy strong but quiet and down low in my pelvis (if that makes any sense - just my weird way of thinking about it). It took a couple of days, but then suddenly he was thinking about lurching for grass but deciding against it when I said 'no' rather than using his strength against me to go for it anyway. I'm not saying that he'll never dive for the grass again (he's a cob for goodness sake!), but the point is that getting confrontational about it wasn't going to get us anywhere, and I'd rather be able to go out for a peaceful walk and have a bit of a laugh at myself when he outsmarts me than to get so focussed on that one 'issue' that it undermines the relationship we've built up and makes our excursions a misery for us both. Also, my technique may not have been perfect, and others may have better ideas for stopping the grass snatching, but the important thing is to decide what you're going to do and then do it calmly ;D OMG love this thread it's been so interesting and OP I'm so glad things are going so well for you both.I know with honey she's SOOOO sensitive if I'm Even a bit premenstual she seems to pick up on it and act up- I'm sure one day I'll be estatic to have such a sensitive horse (and I am cos it's her) but just now when I'm still learning it makes training interesting to say the least! it totally gives me hope and makes me know I can do what I need to with Honey, hearing all your posts and seeing what so many people have got through with hard work, calm and persistence! I want to be able to go through this same learning curve and do this with Honey. Sorry to hijack the thread but janwilky I was so thrilled to read your previous post about leading out on walks! I'm going through some real issues trying to start taking Honey out for walks in hand and would love some advice as it seems like you've been through similar things! I am going to start a new thread anyway about it and would love it if you have the time to share what's worked for you on my thread. ? Thanks everyone for again for restoring my faith in the good will and just general amazingness of all you wonderful Horsey folks out there. MWAH xxxx
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Post by ladyndibs on Feb 10, 2012 21:51:54 GMT 1
Without sounding too soppy , It's amazing what a slobbery horse kiss can do, and that head lowering, Lady does that, we have a bit of licking and chewing then her head that used to be way above my head can sometimes be almost level with my hips, when she turns her face into my chest for a cuddle, well that's me done for, makes getting up in the morning worth it and I'm sure most of us who had had 'issues' appreciate it all the more because we've had to work at it. Ain't life grand
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Post by daviesbaby20 on Feb 10, 2012 23:19:12 GMT 1
Just read my last post back just to clarify when i said actions i didnt mean i done the unthinkable and lashed out just that id become withdrawn from him and taken a step back as his behaviour was deteriorating so rapidly and was being more businesslike with him i think i probably let my personal life and stresses into the stable with me and looking back this was probably the trigger to the downward spiral (oh and myself are currently undergoing ivf) Which in hindsight is completely unfair on the poor lad its hard enough being him on a good day Hes come from an environment in which he was dictated to and never given any choice So think his head explodes more than a bit when presented with choices to make and having stallion traits as gelded late can cause him to push boundaries more regularly and more forcefully i need to learn to be the leader he needs me to be as it will be much easier for me to change my behaviour for him to change his and adapt to him but not be pushed around Seren thanks for your kind words if it wasnt for this forum i think id still be treading water And going round and round in a vicious circle It has helped to have ideas to put into practice and indeed go right back to basics as jan has said it may be a while before i can get back in the saddle but we have the rest of our lives together as im not giving up on my special boy Ladyanddibs i look forward to the day that all the ground work is complete But am happy to say that ill never stop learning as im sure he will always have something more to teach me and look forward to the day that i can enjoy the end result of the hard work that is going into creating as happy a horse as possible Rowan dont worry about hijacking lol everybodys input is greatly appreciated its good to know that the hard work does pay off And the slobbery kisses make it all worth while i nearly cried when he lowered his head he went soo low i could scratch his poll without lifting my hand !!! Heres a pic of him (just thought id share it) Attachments:
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rowanrachel
Olympic Poster
Life is better when you share it with Horses :-)
Posts: 741
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Post by rowanrachel on Feb 11, 2012 0:26:24 GMT 1
He's lurvly! Xxxxxx looks like he's got great lips for slobbery kisses! Lol x
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