Derek Clark
Grand Prix Poster
Olympic Poster
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Post by Derek Clark on Aug 27, 2011 20:28:30 GMT 1
... and finally, here's a fairly nice bit of dressage in competition very recently. This is Ingrid Klimke's dressage test which is currently leading the European eventing championships after a clear round across country. OK it's eventing and not pure dressage so there isn't as much collection or complexity being demanded - but isn't it funny how the necessity to be able to go out and risk one's life across country and over jumps on the same horse the next day leads to this sort of training and performance rather than the 'other stuff' www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0RM4A4OTtJcTo quote a well known Frenchman, "There are not dressage horses and jumping horses, there are just horses that are well-schooled or not!".
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Post by Zuzan on Aug 27, 2011 20:39:41 GMT 1
Think Indigo said she prefered watching eventers doing dressage and yes I totally agree the need to have a true partnership x country is paramount.. however on teh downside have seen Michael Young hyperflex Biscotheque Sam on several occassions.. Interstingly members of the British Team at the Europeans above were apparently critisised for having too high head carriage and above the the bit .. which I would imagine means their horse's noses were infront of the vertical.. do hope eventing doesn't succombe to the hideous practices of pure dressage... of to see if Nicolas Touzaint's dressage is on youtube..
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Post by Sophie and James on Aug 27, 2011 20:58:10 GMT 1
Well I've never really forgiven the Germans since Athens but....
I just watched Ingrid's test and thought it really was lovely.
Sophie
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indigo
Grand Prix Poster
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Post by indigo on Aug 27, 2011 22:03:34 GMT 1
....and finally??? Derek are you trying to put an end to this thread before we reach page ten rofl? I did like that more natural way of going with less exaggeration....BUT there is still something in there, some tension, gosh i'm not sure how to describe it, in the rider and the horse. The riders nearly always look to me as if they are doing too much at both ends, creating more power and then having to override to control it. Does that make sense at all, in my mind (which is a funny place at the best of times lol) it should be more still and light from the rider and more expressive (not forced and exaggerated) from the horse. Where is the joy you see in a horse playing at liberty? I don't know, I guess that human need to control second by second which so often turns into domination, is something I understand, but not that I like. What never ceases to amaze me is what horses WILL do for us, it has a spiritual quality for me that trancsends scientific explanation (and I'm sure there are plenty lol) and I find it sad how underappreciated and abused they can be for that But for me those Centaur moments, where you feel more than human, will always worth the pursuit.
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Post by Zuzan on Aug 27, 2011 22:41:27 GMT 1
Agree Indigo.. I think there is some tension in Ingrid Klimke's test... have searched in vain for Nicloas Touzaint's Badminton test.. but have found this from Saumur www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXNoiKdGMtc Which I think is more flowing.. can see more swing thro in the back.. I think anyway.. Some of WFPs tests also have that ease .. part of the problem is I think the eventing tests are becoming more and more about accuracy and consequently are producing more tension in the horses as riders strive above all else to hit the spot for transitions etc.
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Rik
Elementary Poster
Posts: 62
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Post by Rik on Aug 27, 2011 23:39:16 GMT 1
Fillis devotes 8 pages to the ladies seat, some interesting stuff from another time, a few excerpts… I don’t think men or women could compete in Olympic Dressage until 1948? Before that it was only Cavalry Officers iirc. IMO if you want to see the definitive Classical Riding in the vain of the Renaissance Masters, similar to that at the pinicle of Classical Riding which occurred in Louis XIV? Court, Bartabas is performing improvised equestrian choreography to live Baroque music next month in Paris. Derek, having knocked about the international show jumping shows when my wife worked for the BSJA, there certainly is a difference
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indigo
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 1,242
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Post by indigo on Aug 28, 2011 21:33:29 GMT 1
Ah but men COULD compete because they were cavalry officers and I presume there were no cavalry women lol??? So really woman were exluded from competitive dressage until 1948!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FFS that is quite honestly shocking, I mean really think about that? Women did not gain the vote until 1918 and then it was only married women over 30, it was not equal voting for over 21's until 1928!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I fear I have gone off topic lol, but these dates are still so shockingly close. It would be hard to imagine that any man writing about the way women should ride was not so heavily influenced by social and political views as to make there assesment of the subject highly questionable! I wonder if any WOMEN in centuries past dared have an oppinion on the subject? Or were even allowed to voice that oppinion, never mind have it published sigh!!!!
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indigo
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 1,242
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Post by indigo on Aug 28, 2011 21:46:38 GMT 1
Ok just looked up Bartabas, thank goodness for youtube lol, wowzers, some crazy artistic visionary stuff there, loving. www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCoekfC_yjI&feature=relatedParticularly love him doing the Piaffe at the end of this clip, this is much closer to the dance like vision I have in my head ( I warned you it was bonkers in there ha ha ha). I don't know this man at all so obviously I have no idea HOW he got to that point, but it looks so easy and full of expression without the tension to me?? Oh the education that the good old DG provides!!!
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Amanda Seater
Grand Prix Poster
Listen to your horse you may be surprised what he may tell you about yourself
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Post by Amanda Seater on Aug 29, 2011 11:09:07 GMT 1
Now that is tempting
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indigo
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 1,242
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Post by indigo on Aug 30, 2011 10:00:32 GMT 1
Can you fit me in your suitcase maybe Amanda? ? lol.
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Rik
Elementary Poster
Posts: 62
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Post by Rik on Aug 30, 2011 11:24:49 GMT 1
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indigo
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 1,242
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Post by indigo on Aug 30, 2011 16:35:24 GMT 1
Ah thank you Rik, off to watch Mazeppa now lol, not sure how that one made it under my radar???
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Post by mandal on Sept 9, 2011 13:01:26 GMT 1
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Post by heather on Sept 12, 2011 15:11:55 GMT 1
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indigo
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 1,242
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Post by indigo on Sept 12, 2011 17:57:44 GMT 1
That is genius, bless him what a fancy Burro lol!! Gives me hope as to what might be possible with a Darty!
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