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Post by jen1 on Dec 13, 2010 0:14:21 GMT 1
???i saw a friend today who lives in sussex and she said on her livery yard the horses have no turn out from november until may!! it seems unbelievable, apparently the horses get to go in the outdoor school for 1 hour a day while stables are being done. i think its un natural to have them in for so long, what do others think? no i dont think this is normal, its down right cruel in my book, and i think anyone being made to keep there horses as such has a choice to walk away or be just as cruel,
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Post by sandy on Dec 13, 2010 0:33:46 GMT 1
Well said Jen !
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madmare1
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The Gruesome Twosome
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Post by madmare1 on Dec 13, 2010 0:40:59 GMT 1
I have had to keep Crystal in for the last 3 weeks, as she had an abcess in her hoof, and then it has been too icy to even contemplate taking her out....and as the path to the arena was iced over (with about 2 inches of the damned stuff, even with grit down) and the yard is a cobbled slope....I am NOT risking my horse.
She does love being out in the snow....thinks it is there for her personal amusement, but I would rather keep my old lady safe in her stable and just walking in hand up and down out side her stable than risk putting her out and getting injured.
Emma xx
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Azrael
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Post by Azrael on Dec 13, 2010 1:05:18 GMT 1
I think it's cruel to keep horses in 24/7 for months but turning out in a school isn't the same as keeping in 24/7. They get a chance to socialise and play just the same, they enjoy rolling in sand and it's almost as much hassle to groom off again as mud is ;D If you don't have suitable fields then I don't see what's so bad about using a school for turnout as long as they get enough time in there and company, don't think I'd be happy with only an indoor school for turnout but I doubt many people who've spent money to have one of those would want to turn out in it! I've never known a horse enjoy spending the whole day in knee deep wet mud with no grass left, school turnout seems far nicer, 20 acres of well drained land would be better but that's not something you can always have..
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Post by basilhorse on Dec 13, 2010 9:23:30 GMT 1
Most of the yards I've been on offer sacrifice paddocks in winter. The field gets completely trashed so there's no food out there. All the horses are waiting to come in after 2 hours because they're hungry and bored.
A yard could get round this by putting hay in the field. I'm not sure why they don't. The field is trashed anyway so what's the difference?
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Post by ellibell on Dec 13, 2010 9:29:12 GMT 1
Before I got my own yard 16 yrs ago, every winter there was no turn out from 5th Nov to April 1st on most yards. ALso to have an arena was a privilage. I had 2 then, a welshxtb and a welsh pony. I just got up early (4am), rode the horse and lead pony for an hour, went to work for 7am, finished work at 6pm, an drode and lead again for another hour. On days off they got ridden seperatly and inhand grazed. I think it helps as most yards I was on there was only 1/2 partitions so they could groom etc while in. Even now mine get from 2 to 6 hrs out in winter, they come in when they want to.Mine seem happy enough. I can understand why some yards stop turnout, but to me why not have a sacrifice area which then is a fatpony summer area? Ok on a big yard they wont get much timeout but even an hour with a buddy is better then nothing.
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Post by gwenoakes on Dec 13, 2010 10:32:00 GMT 1
Never mind the no turn out in winter. I know of a yard that some horses and this includes youngsters never get turned out winter or summer. One gets 23/7 in a stable because.........he may lose a shoe, he may injure himself........the others are too difficult to handle to put out..........now I wonder why that could be than?!?! Makes my blood boil!!!
On the other hand some get turned out, never looked at/over for weeks at a time and literally fall off their feet in really bad weather!!!!!!!!! This place has no shortage of acreage either. Grrrrrrrrrr!!
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Post by bertie666 on Dec 13, 2010 11:21:55 GMT 1
I think it's cruel to keep horses in 24/7 for months but turning out in a school isn't the same as keeping in 24/7. They get a chance to socialise and play just the same, they enjoy rolling in sand and it's almost as much hassle to groom off again as mud is ;D If you don't have suitable fields then I don't see what's so bad about using a school for turnout as long as they get enough time in there and company, don't think I'd be happy with only an indoor school for turnout but I doubt many people who've spent money to have one of those would want to turn out in it! I've never known a horse enjoy spending the whole day in knee deep wet mud with no grass left, school turnout seems far nicer, 20 acres of well drained land would be better but that's not something you can always have.. Sorry Melanie but I completely disagree with you. A couple of hours turnout in a school is the equivalent of being in 22/7 not acceptable imo at all. I also think the reason you dont think you have seen a horse enjoy spending a day in mud is because you are thinking like a human (ew wet cold dirty etc) not a horse (space freedom company). You mentioned in your first post that your horses can see each other through partition walls? The only stable I would ever put my mare in would have to be on with half walls so they could at least groom each other over the walls. Actually thinking about it I still wouldnt do it. Horses are a herd animal, keeping them in isolation for the vast majority of their day isnt fair. They need to be able to groom each other, have their pecking order and MOVE. That is one of the crucial things for their feet, joints, stomach just everything. Its also on stables (having worked in many) you see all the problems of horses biting over the doors, kicking the doors, being irritable about being groomed and tacked up, dragging their leader around when going to a field then refusing to be caught - I would be the flipping same confined in a small space 22 hours a day.
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Post by anastasia55555 on Dec 13, 2010 11:32:37 GMT 1
Turn out is number 1 priority for me, followed by hacking and the rest i can live with. If my lot cant live out, then they wouldnt be on a yard that didnt allow it, end of! try finding a stable big enough for the giant anyway ;-) well one i would feel comfortable leaving him in for any length of time lol
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Post by Hannah on Dec 13, 2010 11:36:58 GMT 1
Common - yes. Right for the horse - I don't think so. In a way, I think it is better for the horse to be in full time over winter, than to have erratic turnout, e.g. not going out for a few days or weeks because it is raining/icy/snowy/Tuesday etc That is when you have problems. While I don't agree with keeping in full time, at least if the horses know that is the deal, I think they can manage, as long as the humans behave and feed plenty of forage, small feeds, grazing in-hand, plenty of exercise, maybe going on the walker. If this is not the case, then I would definitely expect to see vices and odd repetitive behaviour. BUT I definitely think horses should be out as much as possible. 1 of mine is in overnight and out all day come rain/snow etc. The other 2 are out full time regardless.
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Post by jen1 on Dec 13, 2010 11:54:57 GMT 1
i think yard get away with it because owners are not proactive enough, if there in between what ever months you should just be paying for a stable, by next year i will have a 1 acre dry turn out area ,it will only have cheap ole wood chip down , i think dry turnout for us is the way to go my field are trashed, ive got 4 on a fatty paddock and 6 on 50 acres and the 50 acres is suffering more , lack of fencing atm is the problem, but rome wasnt built in a day,
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2010 14:03:51 GMT 1
Im honestly appalled at the idea it is better for the horse to be in a tiny box all the time!!! Holy sh!t what do you think they did about mud before humans arrived?! FLEW?! Don't get me wrong, I'm in the camp where turnout all day every day is essential, BUT, before humans confined horses to 10 acre paddocks (or usually smaller) they were able to roam to higher or dryer ground to avoid mud so tbh I think saying that having a horse stood over their fetlocks in mud is natural is stretching the realms of reality. I used to agree with your view that stabling at all was bad, then I spent a winter scraping mud off, cleaning and sole cleansing my horses feet every day and still could not get him through more than two days without thrush and he ended up with WLD. Stabling him at night stopped all that. Not everyone has the luxury of dozens of acres of free draining land so unless we PTS many thousands of horses we just have to do the best we can with the facilites we have available to us. I think if you wish to confine a horse to your own paddocks or land and use them for your pleasure then you have a duty to accept that you are taking away some of the priveledges of a free life and therefore you have a duty to try to improve their life as much as possible - and lets not forget wild horses starve, die of horrible injuries, walk on lame feet for months or years and get eaten by predators (or in the case of newfies and dartmoors, they get run over) so let's not kid ourselves into thinking natural is always good.
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Azrael
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Post by Azrael on Dec 13, 2010 19:21:33 GMT 1
Nope, the reason I don't think they look like they're enjoying mud is the amount of time they spend perched on any vaguely dry bit looking miserable Some of them will enjoy a roll in it and play a bit and I'd happily turn one like that out to have fun and get muddy but Mia really does look miserable and try to get back through the gate onto dry ground at every opportunity. Should I force her to go out in the mud all day every day just because I think it's more 'natural'? Like I said I'd love to have 20 acres of well drained land and let them have loads of turnout all winter but short of a magic wand I'm not going to get that, instead I've got a couple of acres next to the stables that's very wet and I'd rather they spent some time playing and grooming and enjoying themselves in the school than stood in mud all day looking miserable and getting mud fever and problems with their feet from being stood in mud all the time. We've even used the school for all day turnout before and I don't see how that's any worse than being out in a field with no grass left. I've had stables with very low partitions in the past, it doesn't work because they don't generally groom over them, they argue over them. And this was at a different yard with plenty of turnout. We must have very strange horses then, they're a relaxed happy bunch and we only have one that kicks her door and that's only when she knows her bucket is on the way.
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Post by clara81 on Dec 14, 2010 13:12:41 GMT 1
All the yards in my town/ village except mine have turnout restrictions in winter. A couple have no turnout and a few have turnout ina "winter field" (i.e mud bath) on a rota system and the rest have to be stabled at night October to May. My yard has no restrictions with the result that it's usually full all winter despite the awful fencing, no school, unreliable water supply etc. I'm lucky that I rent my own field and stable block away from the main yard that I treat like my own anyway and mine live out all winter with hay in the field. The others can't put hay out as the big field is about 25 acres with 20 horses on. For some reason most people on the yard still bring them in "before it gets dark" (ie 3 o'clock) and don't bother turning them back out until ten o'clock the next day!! I don't get why they can't be out in the dark either, I don't see mine in the light until March lol!
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Post by mandal on Dec 14, 2010 13:29:29 GMT 1
I completely see where Michellep is coming from. Sad isn't it when you think about it that us 'intelligent' human's can't come upp with better (for the horse) management than either a stable or boggy field! The main reason I chose this house was the buildings and yard. I've extended the yard and did hope to put a hard track in part of the field but finances have dried up sadly. Planning constraints etc. are another major stumbling block as well as expense for liverys but where there's the will there's often a way as they say. Perhaps we need to stop 'putting up' with stuff so much?
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