potto
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I have a large spotty and the privilage once of the most beautiful big Ass!
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Post by potto on Dec 11, 2010 13:34:14 GMT 1
Did anyone watch this..... I thought it was suppose to be a commedy quiz programme....? I watched 5 minutes and was so disappointed... i found it archaic and outdated barbaric... unfunny to the point of horrific and completely ignorant... Is this what the horse world has to be subjected too in the name of education and humour? I can only hope the program improved after i stopped watching... but the bit about twitching ears to calm a horse and sticking ginger up a horses rear end to stimulate it .. was enough for me...
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Post by julz on Dec 11, 2010 14:17:47 GMT 1
Yes i did..and was quite amused by it.. Clarie Balding knows her horses what was barbaric about it? Twitching ears IMO is no different to twitching the upper lip.. it does the same job.... I prefer never to twitch, and so far have never needed to.. atleast they had a humane twitch on set and not the usual piece of looped baler twine threaded through either a piece of wood or stirrup iron. As for the ginger.... Have you ever read any of the James Herriots books? some farmers thought it a good idea to stick whole onions in the rectum to cure colic...... anyway.. one push and it will be out again. It wasnt all about horses..... there were other questions too. and as i understand it... different sports are focussed on each week.....
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Post by mandal on Dec 11, 2010 14:30:44 GMT 1
The figures about the numbers of horses used and killed in the 1st WW were interesting as well as the hinted at fate of the surviving ones etc. (assuming the facts were correct) however I agree with you Potto! I was thoroughly depressed by the assumption that to give a horse an injection etc. you twitch it! Claire Balding may know her horses but I wonder what she thinks they feel when ear twitched? Oh yes, those endorphins! You'd imagine there would be droves of horses asking to be twitched once addicted to the 'high' wouldn't you! The thing I found the strangest was they were all agreed it was fine to use dogs and horses as guide animals etc. but never once thought exactly how these dogs and horses were trained? Nose and ear twitched? Surely these supposedly intelligent people could see that if you can 'train' a horse to be a guide horse you can surely 'train' it to accept injections etc.
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Post by Francis Burton on Dec 11, 2010 15:32:40 GMT 1
Yes i did..and was quite amused by it.. Clarie Balding knows her horses what was barbaric about it? Twitching ears IMO is no different to twitching the upper lip.. Except that it's rather easier to damage the ear permanently (by tearing cartilage) than the upper lip. It might be worth finding out if your horses react to the lip twitch before you need to call on it. Some horses (my guess is 5-10%) don't respond in the normal way i.e. by becoming sedated but become agitated instead. At least you would know in advance whether twitching is going to work well or not.
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Post by Catrin on Dec 11, 2010 16:40:45 GMT 1
I didn't find the programme alarming as it is what it is, a look at perceived knowledge and the origins behind the myths it exposes in the form of a witty quiz. I did find Stephen Fry's conclusion that horses find the twitch pleasurable rather than horrendous as it appeared in the awful photo, a naïve and ill formed conclusion made soley on the basis that it releases endorphins.
I was a little surprised that Clare Balding still found twitches acceptable, because they had been a successful way to subdue horses since time immemorial. Perhaps Kelly needs to drop some loud hints when next their paths cross, but on the whole, the programme provided its usual interesting entertainment.
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Post by julz on Dec 11, 2010 22:38:44 GMT 1
Yes i did..and was quite amused by it.. Clarie Balding knows her horses what was barbaric about it? Twitching ears IMO is no different to twitching the upper lip.. Except that it's rather easier to damage the ear permanently (by tearing cartilage) than the upper lip. It might be worth finding out if your horses react to the lip twitch before you need to call on it. Some horses (my guess is 5-10%) don't respond in the normal way i.e. by becoming sedated but become agitated instead. At least you would know in advance whether twitching is going to work well or not. Like I said.... I prefer NOT to twitch
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Post by ghostrider on Dec 11, 2010 22:56:13 GMT 1
so are you suggesting, Francis Burton, that we should twitch all our horses to determine how they might respond .... I can see why people wouldn't want to do this.
I can understand what you are saying (in an emergency you don't want the horse freaking out instead of staying calm) but I would prefer to find alternatives to twitching- eg, all my horses are desensitized to injections and general handling processes carried out by vets. I really don't think there is any justification for twitching for clipping - horses can be taught to stand for clipping. I did have an emergency where I had a horse with her leg stuck in the roll bar of a tractor (don't ask) but by bringing out the rest of the group to stand with her, and being with her myself I managed to keep her calm through the chaos .... when the firemen (this was at night, in a storm) decided they had to climb inbetween her legs to saw her free the vet suggested twitching but I didn't want this to be an 'experimental' experience and we went for mild sedation - it worked well (thank God the vet, and the firemen who were truly awsome) and she escaped without even a cut.
Going back to the original topic - I enjoyed the programme as 'light entertainment' but was disappointed that some of the practices mentioned weren't questioned (even slightly). I thought the stuff about horses in the war and their ultimate fate was very sad - and loved the comment that "if the world was really a rational place, men would ride sidesaddle"!
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Post by Francis Burton on Dec 12, 2010 15:13:43 GMT 1
so are you suggesting, Francis Burton, that we should twitch all our horses to determine how they might respond .... I can see why people wouldn't want to do this. Oh yes, I can quite understand why some people wouldn't want to do that. It was just a suggestion. If someone is implacably opposed to using the twitch under any circumstances, then there is no point obviously. However, if an owner is willing in principle to it being used in an emergency situation, an argument can be made for finding out beforehand when the stakes aren't high and it can be done in a relatively safe, controlled way. I guess it also depends on whether people believe that it causes lasting mental trauma. In my experience, it doesn't seem to lay down bad memories or dent already established trust if it is performed when the horse is calm. I can imagine, though, that it could be if the horse is a non-responder and struggled to escape it in an emergency situation when the vet's assistant (say) would be more likely to try and make it work for longer than they otherwise would. That's not to say that I like twitching. I think it should be reserved for emergencies where it can indeed have a useful sedating effect (in the majority of horses that are responsive). Like you, I am dead against it being used for mere convenience or routine jobs like clipping where a proper programme of prior desensitization is what the horse really deserves. Hope that clarifies matters!
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Post by julz on Dec 12, 2010 18:22:29 GMT 1
If anyone knows thier horse well, then they would know how the horse might react to a twitch without actually having to try.
We've been in the position where the vet wanted the horse twitched even though he was standing perfectly still...but they said they knew best, and for the proceedure they were about to do (drawing fluid from a joint) horse must be twitched, incase he accidently knee'd or kicked someone.. so twitch went on, horse woke up turning into a raving loony, and immedietly they said twitch could come off if I was sure he'd stay still.... which he did.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2010 20:20:12 GMT 1
My experience of twitches is that every time you use one the horse becomes less willing to let you put it on again... so yes it might be acceptable in an emergency situation but is clearly not pleasant
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Post by mandal on Dec 12, 2010 21:11:06 GMT 1
My experience of twitches is that every time you use one the horse becomes less willing to let you put it on again... so yes it might be acceptable in an emergency situation but is clearly not pleasant This is the point I was trying to make earlier but I only have anecdoatal evidence! Endorphins, relaxation or whatever the justification for routine use, horses, as you say Michelle, are saying they don't like it!
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Post by Francis Burton on Dec 12, 2010 21:25:41 GMT 1
Don't think anyone's said that horses actually like being twitched - it's pretty obvious they don't!
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Post by mandal on Dec 12, 2010 21:31:51 GMT 1
Just a general comment Francis from stuff I've read in the past as justification and for me the most important point is rarely mentioned. Sorry if I go on a bit!
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Post by Francis Burton on Dec 12, 2010 21:41:13 GMT 1
Don't be sorry, Mandal - it needed to be said (in case anyone thought otherwise).
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Post by Lady Equine on Dec 13, 2010 11:07:22 GMT 1
Ok please excuse my ignorance/inexperience, but i wasn't aware twitching the ear held the same sedation value as the top lip, i have always believed that the ear created the fear to not move where as the nose has endorphin value.?? I am lucky i have never needed to twitch and really wouldn't want to, her previous owner has twitched her ear and she carries the scars to show it. In fact it took two years to get near her ears which now are kissed and played with daily and In the early days when we were new to each other, I found if she needed help to be calm a massage on the top lip had the same effect?
LE x
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