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Post by fth on Dec 13, 2010 11:17:51 GMT 1
ok to start with I prefer not to twitch -- but I do think the point about knowing your horse is the key
I have had TWO horses who DID ask for the twitch! both were high spirited horses who loved moving and found it an effort to stand still....of course we did lots of work on this but one had a wound on his back leg to clean out and it was going to hurt when it was cleaned -- all other approaches did not enable him to stand, even mild seadtion, so we gently put a twich on and he relaxed compeltely, let his cut be cleaned and was fine afterwards.
the next day when the vet came back for another clean, we started asking him to stand still, but had thw twitch in case we needed it -- he looked for and oicked up the twitch and clearly asked for it -- when it was on he went back into his dreamy state and let his leg be cleaned.
by day 5 he wasn't asking for it (we had been able to use less pressure on it each day) and we were able to clean his leg without any bother.
the other horse was similar...
so as always, it is horses for courses...
Cathy
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Post by mandal on Dec 13, 2010 12:26:44 GMT 1
Fascinating experience Fth. I also think HOW a nose twitch is applied may be a factor too. I've seen grabs at the nose and it put on as fast as possible and all a bit of a tussle really and I suspect twisted hard and too quickly. A slow and gentle application and increase of appropriate pressure seems more likely to me to induce a sedating response. It all being a tussle and firm twitching is much more likely to produce a fear response I would imagine. The problem with emergency situations is the human's are often 'pumped up' through worry, another reason for remaining calm and aiming for that trusting relationship with your horses like it sounds you have Fth. *Wanders off eating my words!* lol
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Post by Francis Burton on Dec 13, 2010 12:59:08 GMT 1
Yes indeed - very interesting! That's the first I've heard of any horse actually wanting to be twitched. Two of them in fact. Were they related, fth?
So would it be fair to summarize the range of reactions to twitching as...
Many (most?) horses don't like it but tolerate it without adverse after-effects.
Some horses don't like it and their aversion to it gets worse, even though it does work with them.
A few horses don't respond at all and may react violently in trying to escape it.
A very few horses actually like it.
?
(Talking of atypical reactions, I know a whole bunch of horses, Dales ponies, who love to be wormed and positively ask for the syringe to be put in their mouth. The owner must be something right, or else Dales are just weird. I do know they all get a polo or carrot after the wormer, so maybe that's it.)
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dptc
Olympic Poster
Posts: 557
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Post by dptc on Dec 14, 2010 14:45:55 GMT 1
I didn't find the programme alarming as it is what it is, a look at perceived knowledge and the origins behind the myths it exposes in the form of a witty quiz. I did find Stephen Fry's conclusion that horses find the twitch pleasurable rather than horrendous as it appeared in the awful photo, a naïve and ill formed conclusion made solely on the basis that it releases endorphins. I was a little surprised that Clare Balding still found twitches acceptable, because they had been a successful way to subdue horses since time immemorial. Perhaps Kelly needs to drop some loud hints when next their paths cross, but on the whole, the programme provided its usual interesting entertainment. Agree with you entirely, I watched it last night it's a comedy quiz they aren't exactly going to go in to the ins and outs of it all are they! Take it as it is, I found it funny I love QI. I am sure on other subjects things have been misconstrued or assumed along the way and ill advised conclusions drawn. Despite being a comedy quiz programme when it was mentioned how many horses were killed in the war there was an air of sadness and respect! As for the twitching I don't agree with it but it's QI they have to bring out something to be guessed about, it is a shame to hear Clare mention ear twitching, I've spent a lot of time with a horse who had this done and is still headshy at times 10 years on. But as I said they can't say it then go and explain the fors, againsts etc etc, it's a quiz show. And the ginger up the bum, never heard that one before! Just because it was mentioned doesn't mean it is still done, or people will do it, if I ever see someone needing resuscitating from drowning I'm not about to get bellows and put smoke up their backside to revive them (previous show), it's just history!
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Post by jennyb on Dec 14, 2010 15:09:02 GMT 1
I was quite amused that Claire Balding didn't recognise a humane twitch, and thought it looked more severe than a rope one.....
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Post by portiabuzz on Dec 14, 2010 15:20:28 GMT 1
hmmm dont watch it!! Boo to twiches though! Seen to many horses that are ear / lip shy due to the damned things.
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Post by portiabuzz on Dec 14, 2010 15:20:44 GMT 1
ps does the above make sense!?
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Post by Francis Burton on Dec 14, 2010 16:31:01 GMT 1
And the ginger up the bum, never heard that one before! Just because it was mentioned doesn't mean it is still done, or people will do it, if I ever see someone needing resuscitating from drowning I'm not about to get bellows and put smoke up their backside to revive them (previous show), it's just history! Apparently gingering was being done until quite recently, and may still be practiced by some despite being forbidden now by showing rules. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GingeringUtterly despicable.
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Post by mandal on Dec 14, 2010 18:10:27 GMT 1
I do enjoy the programme. I just found it so disappointing and depressing how entrenched in our culture things like twitching seem to be, you know the... 'oh yes that's what you do to horses when they need an injection' mind set. Not malicious like gingering (grrr) but just accepted. Just pressed one of my buttons I suppose.
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Post by becky1simba on Dec 14, 2010 20:51:39 GMT 1
I'm going to put most of the people on here backs up now by saying that I have twitched my little horse quite a few times and I had to make a rope one attached to a piece of wood as I didn't own a twitch as i've never needed one of had to make one quickly. My little horse Simba injured himself extremely badly about 5 years ago and he had 3 lots of sedation as his adrenalin level was so high and he was fighting the sedation and the vet just couldn't give him anymore as it was too risky to do so. He needed a little extra something to calm him and the twitch gave him that end little bit he needed so that the vet could safely tend to his legs cleaning and stapling 3 of them back together (80 staples were required)!! He needed so many injections over the next 2 weeks to help him fight off infection and the antibiotics he had to have needed to be injected, the bute went in the feed. He had no problems with needles before his accident but over the period of couple of weeks he needed injections he became needle shy due to having to be done so much and the only way to do it was to twitch him as he was a danger to himself, the vets and me. He also got funny about his legs being seen to everyday and he was being dangerous so I had to twitch him and get my boyfriend to hold him so I could see to them quickly. When the 3 occassions the vet came to take out his staples he had the be twitched for the vets safety and Simbas' as he really hated his legs being touched. Once the staples were out I used to spend lots of time quitely on my own slowly getting him used to having his legs touched again and being happy about it and he came round quickly with getting lots of treats. Sometimes in certain circumstances it's needed for the horses/ponies and the peoples safety but only for then. Hope i'm not going to get lynched now for saying i've used one!!
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Post by mandal on Dec 14, 2010 21:38:28 GMT 1
Sometimes in certain circumstances it's needed for the horses/ponies and the peoples safety but only for then. Hope i'm not going to get lynched now for saying i've used one!! Well I wont be in the lynching party. I agree that in certain circumstances it may be necessary. My objection is it being used as routine.
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Post by julz on Dec 14, 2010 23:15:06 GMT 1
not lynching here...... If things can be done without twitching then great.... If they cant be done and anyone doing the necessary might be in danger without it, then there is no problem.. the problem (for me) would arise if the twitch (rope and wood) was on too tightly and for too long a period. I dont know how to use a humane twitch, as I've never seen one being used....
For us.. S was sedated when the vet needed to do things like clean out wounds on his legs, because in these situations he could be quite handy with his back (or front) legs.... he was quite good at letting us do things to him (he loved being groomed etc) but if it should cause him any pain, then ofcourse he would object....
If anyone (vet/farrier etc) came to me to do something to my horse and said "not doing anything til a twitch is on.." then im afraid nothing would be getting done. I dont see the point of twitching for the sake of it.
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Post by Francis Burton on Dec 15, 2010 11:20:36 GMT 1
No lynch partying here either. I dont see the point of twitching for the sake of it. Me neither. I don't think anyone was suggesting that though!
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Post by donnalex on Dec 15, 2010 11:47:41 GMT 1
A friend of mine used to have an Irish pony mare that came to he really traumatised, she had clearly been very roughly handled in the past. She came good and jumped at Hickstead through her daughter being really patient with her. Over time she ended up being good at everything and when being clipped or anything else that needed restraint she used to offer her nose for twitching on sight of the twitch. Once twitched she went to sleep and never ever showed any resentment at all at having it done. I think you can liken this to a junkie. Nobody 'likes' being injected/pricked with a needle, we all wince at the point of it going in but a junkie getting their fix clearly think it is worth it and will go to any lengths to get it. Perhaps the horses who getter the better fix or are more intelligent soon realise the connection between a few seconds discomfort for the pleasure of the high? And perhaps some people are much more adept at putting it on without stress and discomfort so how a horse reacts when seeing a twitch could be directly linked to how stress free was the first few times it was put on in its life?
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Post by jennyb on Dec 15, 2010 11:58:06 GMT 1
Having seen Simba's scars from his accident, I don't think anyone could criticise you for using a twitch on him! I think if he hadn't had prompt treatment and lots of antibiotics, he could have been pts with those injuries, poor boy.
I don't have any qualms about twitching a horse in an emergency like that - anything goes, if it's for the horse's and handlers safety in an emergency. I keep a chifney in my first aid kit for the same reason. I'd hope that for most things, I could handle my horse in just a headcollar, but they can become quite dangerous when they are in pain and frightened. Your post made me realise I should probably pick up a twitch from the tack shop for the same reason! You'd hope you never need it, but when you do need one, you tend to need it NOW! I can do a twitch with my hand if I need to but if the horse is struggling it's hard to keep hold.
It's not a nice thing to do and I agree I don't like it being used for routine stuff in the place of training, but sometimes needs must and you have to stay safe.
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