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Post by Cameo on Nov 29, 2009 18:03:53 GMT 1
It is often easy to criticise and emotive language can be a way to make a critical point - but as I understand it - science is there to find something out - to work with. It isn't an emotional way of working. It is interesting and can raise as many questions as it answers. It is about curiosity - not necessarily "proving". I don't think anyone is trying to "own" the science - and this way of working is just beginning after all - so lets not get too heated about how it is applied just yet - let's just see what happens. I think we need to be a little more laid back with how we work with Non-confrontational methods and a happy outcome is what Monty is working towards and his methods with the measuring of heartbeats is fascinating. I also think that in a discussion group manners are paramount and feel you carry a lot of anger Tess1. You might find a more sympathetic reaction if you temper your approach?
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Post by Lorraine L on Nov 29, 2009 18:17:55 GMT 1
When i first saw Monty's work, i knew that i could help my horses more. I have read ( time allowing ) many other articles and methods from different trainers but i still use the IH approach for my boys. I have seen and heard many stories of owners ' changing ' their approach to their training ... adding in a little of this and that, and some with disasterous consqences with mixed up horses. I guess it would be difficult for say, a ' first ridden pony ' who had been through many owners in its life time, to have been taught by ardent supporters of different training ideas at each stage in its life. I know that mine would be confused but thats only my personal opinion. What i find sad, and it is sad, is those people who want to use any one method as some kind of 'calling ' whereby they are so blinkered that they chose to knock other ideas which ultimately are just out there trying to help the horse. Each horse owner should take their individual skills ... some education and understanding but KNOW what they and their horses are capable of to reach the best possible relationship. I know that the majority of people using this board have exactly that.
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Post by ashleigh on Nov 29, 2009 18:19:25 GMT 1
It's really interesting that the people who do all the attacking, fingerpointing, and vitriol spitting never put up any videos of their no doubt excellent work with troubled horses.
I'm talking about videos showing work that is comparable to the sort of situations Monty has to deal with.
Strangely enough, this is never forthcoming.
Monty and Kelly's work is very public and constantly open to public scrutiny. Do the people who constantly decry their work leave themselves open to the same scrutiny? No they do not.
Hmmm, I wonder why?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 18:54:38 GMT 1
I don't think you're being attacked for overanalysing, Tess, more that many of your statements are incorrect (you're definition of join up here is a good example), and the tone of your posts seems to range from sarcastic through to patronising. For someone so keen on positive reinforcement, there seems to be very little coming from you towards others. Maybe if you yourself were a bit more open minded and occasionally saw good in IH, you might get a warmer welcome.
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Post by Kelly Marks on Nov 29, 2009 19:34:13 GMT 1
Oh gosh Tess, I've just come home from teaching learning theory on our Horse Psychology all day. I don't think there is any other organisations that is dedicated to giving out the information on science of learning more than we are! The post modern thing was just a bit of fun from Wendy our pet scientist. I've had a lovely days teaching (brilliant students as usual!) and now as I prepare to wind down my 'thought for the day' re. science/horses/teaching/life is we need to check in occasionally that we are having some FUN with it all. After all if we're just a walking bundle of anger and indignation we'll be an aversive stimulus to our horses - as well as to everyone else.
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Post by mandal on Nov 29, 2009 19:41:38 GMT 1
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Post by Dragonmaster on Nov 29, 2009 20:07:39 GMT 1
Just looked at the link, Mandal. It seems to be providing science to back up the spiritual belief that the heart, and heart chakra, have a bigger function than just pumping blood. Funny, we've just been discussing science proving spiritual thought on another thread today. Thanks.
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Post by mandal on Nov 29, 2009 20:12:21 GMT 1
I believe it goes further than that Dragonmaster... I haven't studied in depth but I think they have science to say the heart is more the 'centre' than the brain.
I've started to take an interest because of the heart monitor trials...
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Post by Zoe RA on Nov 29, 2009 20:15:52 GMT 1
Am I finaly going to have a good excuse for my heart tending to rule my head ;D
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Post by Dragonmaster on Nov 29, 2009 20:19:50 GMT 1
Actually I totally agree. That's why I advocate trusting your heart not your head when making decisions. And of course it was earlier on this thread we were talking about Gregg Braden and quantum physics. Amazing where these discussions take us... in one thread we ahve discussed ways of training horses, quantum physics and spirituality.
Of course we could get into the realms of the horse as spiritual being or Unicorns experiencing an earthly existence.... but then I really might upset some people!
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Post by Zoe RA on Nov 29, 2009 20:23:35 GMT 1
Hmmm, yes, "gut reaction" = instinct doesn't it?
I am always telling owners to trust their instincts.
This is getting more and more interesting. Thank you for poating this thread Tess1 ;D But possibly not for the reasons that you intended!
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Post by touchstone on Nov 29, 2009 20:36:36 GMT 1
I'm a huge believer in listening to your intuition. Another scientist that you might find interesting is Nassim Haramein www.theresonanceproject.org/ You can also find some of his videos on Youtube
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Post by Dragonmaster on Nov 29, 2009 20:44:45 GMT 1
Your 'gut reaction' comes from your solar plexus and your sacral chakras, which are about instinct and survival. The heart chakra is about unconditional love, love and acceptance of self and understanding what is best. The heart can connect with the Higher Self which is situated outside the body above the head, and the higher self can connect with universal knowledge. So trusting your gut instinct and following your heart will help you follow your true path, and when you 'go with the flow' life becomes easier. So going back to the original posts, knowledge and learning is always good but trust your instincts in how you apply it.
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Post by donnalex on Nov 29, 2009 20:47:13 GMT 1
It's really interesting that the people who do all the attacking, fingerpointing, and vitriol spitting never put up any videos of their no doubt excellent work with troubled horses. I'm talking about videos showing work that is comparable to the sort of situations Monty has to deal with. Strangely enough, this is never forthcoming. Monty and Kelly's work is very public and constantly open to public scrutiny. Do the people who constantly decry their work leave themselves open to the same scrutiny? No they do not. Hmmm, I wonder why? Very true Ashleigh! Not even a signature made up of good photographs, nothing at all
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Post by donnalex on Nov 29, 2009 20:48:51 GMT 1
After all if we're just a walking bundle of anger and indignation we'll be an aversive stimulus to our horses - as well as to everyone else. Absolutely! Happy relaxed people = Happy well adjusted horses, dogs and children ;D
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