Post by Stepney on Jun 10, 2005 12:15:08 GMT 1
Subject : MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Polo and Junior
Date : 28.06.02 11:47:00 AM
We've heard that there are some people in this world who actually care for our fate. That's amazing and we can't wait to meet you to believe it. Our old owners didn't care about us and we were exchanged for "sports" horses with Daniel, the riding school owner/dealer. Because we were not worth much and we're quiet (dead tired in fact) we are used for school work. In fact our Polo (real name Sporting, what a laugh) here has such bad arthritis, he wouldn't think about running off so they let the smallest kids ride him - ON A LUNGE, hours on end!! And when we're not doing our circles in the heat of the school (35 - 40ยบ in summer), we stand in our dank, stuffy, dark stable, tied to the wall so we won't kick each other (as if we would, we're mates!!) to wait until we're collected to work again
(
Polo: 15.3 - 16 hh, bay gelding with bad arthritis, looks more like a deer than a horse(
Junior: 16 - 16.2 hh liver chestnut gelding, very sad and very tired(
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Su
Date : 28.06.02 12:02:00 AM
Junior sounds like he was meant for Roz with Libby!!!!
S
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Lorraine L
Date : 28.06.02 12:04:00 AM
You just keep doing it to me, don't you........wonder if Kleenex would sponsor these horses !!!!!!
xxx
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Lorraine L
Date : 28.06.02 12:12:00 AM
The three Amigos !!!!!!!
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Roz with Libby
Date : 28.06.02 3:01:00 PM
Could you let me know what kind of age Junior is. I have a feeling he's already earmarked, but thought would ask anyway.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From :
Date : 28.06.02 3:37:00 PM
Is travelling Polo all that way really a good thing?, it is not even as if he can lead a usefull and painless life when he arives back.
I used to ride for a dealer and beleive me there are many horses in this country in the same condition, I remember one cally Danny, an aged TB who had been down in the box and had cuts on his legs, very thin and lots of scars.
Before getting to know Danny I did not think a TB would be for me, but I fell in love with him but could not take him on. He is just one of hundreds of honest horses who pass through the dealers every day sometimes in apalling condition, I know I have ridden and groomed many of them. Many buyers come to view the horses and I was always honest about them and their querks, even if it meant a quiet whisper out of the dealers earshot!
Don't let sentiment take over here, and leave common sense behind!
I will now wait to be shot down in flames!
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Ally S
Date : 28.06.02 3:46:00 PM
To the anon last remark. I won't shoot you down in flames. You make a perfectly good and reasonable point. All involved in this can be accused of letting sentiment take over! However, the point is that we can't save all the poor horses in the world, but these ones have specifically been brought to our attention, and we just feel we have to help. Someone on another associated thread mentioned the ripple effect. Well that's what this is - enough ripples make a wave! If sentiment is driving it, then I remain proud of being sentimental. I agree that if Polo is not fit to travel, he shouldn't, but the chances are that if it's at all possible this horse could still have have a decent quality of life if given the chance. I know it's not much in the big picture, but these horses being helped is better than nothing isn't it?
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From :
Date : 28.06.02 3:51:00 PM
If you want a horse in need brought to attention I am sure that i and EMW followers could do this every day.
I am not getting argumentative here, although I realise it sounds like it!,
I just get annoyed at people being too sentimental and doing to much do-gooding.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From :
Date : 28.06.02 3:57:00 PM
sorry to be anon, but its for good reason, I have to agree with the previous anon in many ways, in particular that many horses in this country are indeed treated appalingly, and last year i found about 15 all in a bad way, two looked almost dead, tb types so thin and pitiful it made me cry, they had no food, water, or bedding thier feet were in a terrible state, and were all stabled (if you could call it that)and stood in mess. i reported them to the RSPCA, and nothing was done, as apparently they were under the vet.
So even though i tried i was totally unable to help, Merlin can be helped, and so why shouldn't he and his pals be taken care of, and if it doesn't work out, there is no shame in saying "I tried"
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Ally S
Date : 28.06.02 4:08:00 PM
I take your point. But it bothers me not what horse I try to assist in this life. Every bit helps, and I'm truly sorry if by trying to help these poor Spanish horses you're offended. Maybe you should do just what you suggest and bring something to everyone's attention? That's what Pauhla did and it's worked. The fact is I've seen piccies of the Spanish horses, had descriptions, know people who've seen them, found details of banks accounts to give donations to etc etc. I really understand if you're part of EMW and we're making a big deal of a few horses when you must witness some horrendous sights it must be a bit galling. But try and put it in perspective - nothing being done here will in any way take away from all the poor horses you come across. if you need help, have specific issues, horses whatever, point it out and ask for help. Please don't just attack us for being too 'do gooding'. Do gooders in my opinion do good - you're just understandably peeved that the good doing is pointed at a minority when there is a major problem here. Every bit helps, I admire tremendously what EMW do, but I'm afraid you'll never get me to apologise for trying to help any horse, however sentimental and out of proportion that may seem to you. Blimey, we're all horse lovers, and all on the same side, lets' not argue over who deserves help and who doesn't! I think it would be worth you looking at EMW and it's 'marketing' to see if you can help improve awareness or something. I mean that very constructively. There are horses all over the place that need help, but I can't see any point in pitting one good cause against another. Let's just do what we can to improve awareness of all the good things everyone is trying to do and support accordingly.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Ally S
Date : 28.06.02 4:10:00 PM
Sorry, me and the last anons messages crossed! My reply was aimed at the previous anon re EMW.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From :
Date : 28.06.02 4:14:00 PM
I take everyones point and will make this my last post.
I am not anything to do with EMW, and not heard of them until recently.
But I do like their common sense attitude and their proffessional set up.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Ally S
Date : 28.06.02 4:20:00 PM
Hey anon - we're agreed on that point at least!
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Harriet
Date : 28.06.02 4:22:00 PM
Sorry - what's EMW? I haven't heard of them before, and I guess that actually sort of proves that do-gooding - while not to everyone's taste - can raise awareness of a previously unknown case. We are now aware of Merlin and his friends and can do something to help - if we knew a bit more about EMW perhaps they could get more help too?
Heaven knows, rescuing 3 horses is little enough, when there are horses in this country in worse condition, but who are we to play God and decide what's more deserving? If we all shout loudly enough the ripples may spread widely enough to give other horses a chance.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Su
Date : 28.06.02 4:29:00 PM
Could someone please reply to Roz with Libby's email. There may be a permanent loving home waiting here with money towards the fund
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Pauhla
Date : 28.06.02 4:36:00 PM
To Anons all, I do understand totally and I don't condemn either of you for your genuine views! I have literally laid awake at night over this whole thing.Before I went to Spain, I had got to the point where I felt that Laura had to be got out (if you havn't seen the pictures of her then e-mail me pauhla@pauhla.com) as she was a complete cruelty case, but Merlin was the tip of the iceberg and where do you stop? I even went through the same "there are abused and neglected horses in the UK" scenario but that was before I actually decided to go and see for myself and I am so glad I did.Even if they aren't always enforced efficiently, we do at least have welfare acts in this country and they are in the process of being given more "teeth" to prevent rather than prosecute cruelty or neglect.
All 3 of my horses are rescues. One is owned by a large equine charity, one was a broken down horse who was going to be shot and the other had health and emotional problems and had proved unsaleable. I have done my bit for 3 horses here who would otherwise be dead and I continue to financially support UK equine charities. Donna P, wise person that she is, said to me that the motto at the animal rescue she works for in her spare time says "it's the dog on the day" and that is so true.
This is a small world now and cruelty and injustice, to both human and non-human animals is a global issue and all we can do is help where we can, where we see a need.
Perhaps there is scope for a DG charity in the future and perhaps EMW and similar organisations could benefit? Either way, the main issue is that we have, as Ally said, started the ripple and now we need to keep the momentum going and see where it ends up!
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Roz
Date : 28.06.02 4:43:00 PM
Sorry Su, there are so many threads that it's easy to miss bits but there is a post somewhere saying that Dawn has offered Junior a home and Polo is staying with Donna P with me as "guardian".They are both mid teens I believe.
Ros, could we keep you in reserve in case Dawn has to pull out for any reason as it would be good to know that he still has a home if needs be???!!!
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Pauhla
Date : 28.06.02 4:43:00 PM
Sorry, last post was From Pauhla TO Roz with Libby :0)
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : rosemary_hannah
Date : 28.06.02 8:29:00 PM
No, we can't do everything. We can do something. A long hot journey with a green field at the end has to be better than a long hot day, followed by a long hot day. If we can get this story into all the horsey press, I hope that we can raise people's awareness, and that includes about horses in this country! Maybe the next person spurred into action will take it over some poor pony stuck in horrible livery with inadequet owners - how knows?
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : another anon
Date : 28.06.02 9:18:00 PM
I too can't understand why you are trying to raise this money for one (ok, maybe 2 or 3) horse in another country. Are you going to visit other countries and do the same? Is the owner of this yard going to look after his horses properly once you have rescued these 3? What about quarantine costs?
There are plenty of needy cases at home........
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Lorraine L
Date : 28.06.02 9:34:00 PM
Hi 'another anon'
I thought that Pauhla answered most of the questions earlier in this thread, but on a purely personal note - To me, a horse in need is a needy horse no matter what its circumstances / regardless of what country he comes from.
The Spanish RSPCA are involved as a direct result of people on this site but it is not straight forward because of their - shall we say, different way of how they deal with animals as a nation.
The regulations and safeguards were all checked out by Pauhla in advance and I understand that with the correct vet checks and papers, quarantine is not necessary.
I am sure that you, like me would like to live in a world where 'rescue' was not needed and although this project is only a 'drop in the ocean' - its a start and hopefully more animals will benefit from the wonderful, sincere and generous nature of the people contributing to these threads about Merlin.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Donnaburger
Date : 30.06.02 7:44:00 AM
My reasons for offering a home to Merlin have nothing to do with the fact that there are horses here needing help.
I have rescued loads of English ones.
I worked at the local horse sales for years and believe me, l know exactly what is going on.
Merlin has the misfortune to be in Spain, where cruelty is looked on in a completely different light.
He needs help, we want to, and l`ve got room.
If my attention had been bought by a needy sole at the end of my road, l would be doing the same.
The fact that so many people are giving their time and money to this cause is justification enough, l can`t see that distance or countries should make any difference.
People will support any cause that pulls at their heartstrings, and thank god for that.
To the Anons:- If you have seen such suffering here, why haven`t you done something/anything?
I am certain that if you really want something doing, you have to be prepared to stick your necks out.
Say your who you are and why you need help, this `rescue` is surely proof of that.
IMHO
People are donating to Merlin or two other charities with a voice after all.
Donna x
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Mike(P)
Date : 30.06.02 11:00:00 AM
Hi,
I'm a little disappointed that it seems we are almost having to justify rescuing Merlin and (hopefully) friends. I have two horses both of whom were rescue cases. Troy (6) suffered severe neglect and malnutrition as a youngster and Mary (28) was due to be shot as she was no longer able to do the work required of her. She is now my sons hack and is doing a wonderful job restoring his confidence. She is in good health and is a joy to have (they both are). Like many people here I donated any spare tack etc to the Brooks Hospital appeal (Egypt) recently, I also joined the ILPH as a birthday present for myself. I have been a member of the RSPCA for many years. I am making a donation to Merlins fund. I operate and maintain (free of charge) two web sites for local animal rescue centres. One of my dogs is a rescue case. Many people on this site will tell similar stories. The thing is I like many people here I abhore cruelty to animals and will help wherever and whenever we can. If and when a needy case is brought to my attention I will do my best to try and do something constructive to help no matter where the help is needed. I have the deepest admiration for Pauhla and particularly Sandra, who dispite being out on a limb has continued to pick away at this awful situation which is right in front of her. Do we ignore her because the situation is not right in front of us? If people are encouraged to help a suffering animal, it cannot be wrong no matter where it is occuring. When these situations are sorted out, no doubt (all to quickly) another case we be brought to our attention and hopefully we can do our bit there too. Human nature being what it is we will never stamp out cruelty, and help will always be needed somewhere, and as said previously every wave starts as a ripple.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Ted
Date : 30.06.02 11:02:00 AM
I've read this thread with growing annoyance .
Firstly there is no reason on earth for anyone contributing to this dg to be anonymous . There are several DG contributors whose names I don't know , but whose pseudonyms are very familiar .
It seems to me that all these anonymous people are trying to do is add a non exsistant mystique to what they are writing .
With regard to the rescue of Merlin and other equines from abroad - this is not the first case , nor will it be the last . Have a look sometime at the work of the Elizabeth Svendsen Trust and the number of donkeys that have been rescued from abroad - and particularly those from Spain .
This particular rescue is a case of like minded people actually putting effort and money into something with a definite result in mind rather than just shouting about how bad and disgusting it is and shouldn't it be banned .
I have a had big argument with a number of organisations in the past over attention grabbing headlines , demands for things to be banned , but very little real action . Spain differs from Eastern Europe . Whatever image they may like to put out , Spain is not an impoverished backward country and there
is no real excuse for treatment of any animal in this way . Maybe as a result of what is now happening , this particular riding school owner might just be persuaded to treat his horses differently .
Yes there are horses in a sorry state in this country . There are also a zillion and one organisations whose aim in life is to help them . Some do this well , others are totally useless .
If the horses in Spain are certified fit to travel , then I for one can see nothing at all wrong with trying to improve their lives while at the same time giving a real message to the Spanish owner .
Ted .
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Fred (previously anon)
Date : 30.06.02 11:26:00 AM
erm!!
well i was anon as i'd grassed someone up for cruelty and neglect,but ok i'll call myself fred, but i wasn't slating anyone for helping merlin or any other living creature..I was saying it was a good thing he was to be helped.
I think that the other anon people should perhaps open thier hearts. Or should we just allow the starving to starve as it's ok, it's not in this country. People and animals need help the world over, and when someone is prepared to do that then, well done.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Ally S
Date : 30.06.02 11:28:00 AM
Just to say I agree 110% with everthing said by Mike P and Ted. Well said on both counts.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Pauhla
Date : 30.06.02 11:56:00 AM
The good thing here is we all have a choice...to support the appeal, or not. It is as simple as that. For those who don't wish to then that is their perrogative and it doesn't necessarily mean that because they aren't with us they are against us.
It wasn't so many years ago that the Daily Star "rescued" Blackie the donkey very publicly from being used in a Spanish fiesta (did he go to Sidmouth in the end Ted???) and the general concensus at the time seemed be that this was a good thing to do.
Without trying to make comparisons, the Ethiopian Appeal in the 80's sparked peoples need to help. We knew there were deserving cases in this country too and probably the same peopele gave regularly to Children in Need etc. We all do what we can, where we see a need and it is our choice.So, for those anons who have reservations, and who probably support other causes in other ways, perhaps we should look at the wider picture and be glad that we are still compassionate enough to be moved and moved enough to act.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Jane
Date : 30.06.02 12:10:00 AM
Hi, I just wanted to say that I think it's wonderful that somebody is trying to help an animal in need, it shouldn't matter what country they are in. A few weeks ago we found a very old pony living in a small field on his own with only an old water building for shelter, all the windows were broken. He was in bad condition, after tracking down the owner he said that he hadn't been to see the horse in 3 years. He handed the pony over to my friend saying she could find a new home for it if she could be bothered. I phoned over 25 rescue centres and only one said that his case was bad enough to be taken on.
The people from the centre drove 4 hours to come down and get him. Even though the horse had had no horse or human company for years, he was remarkably friendly. He enjoyed his few weeks in the centres large fields and warm stable but then he had to be laid to rest. It was found that he had cancer and a tumour in his sheath, that it had eaten away half his penis.
I feel sad that I couldn't have found a new home for him sooner, maybe then he wouldn't have had to suffer so much. But even after that the case didn't stop there. We are being sued by the 'owner' who believes the horse was never put to sleep, that he was sold so that my friend could buy a new horse. The case is now with the RSPCA who hope to prosecute this man for neglect.
So everyone out there who is rescueing horses or making their lives a little better then PLEASE CONTINUE, there are thousands of neglected horses out there who need help.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Lorraine L
Date : 30.06.02 1:28:00 PM
Dear Jane, Ted and Mike,
Thanks so much for all of your support and those encouraging words......it means an awful lot.
xxx
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Lis
Date : 30.06.02 4:15:00 PM
I find it very sad that people condemn those who are trying to help a needy case wherever it may be.
Mike P and Ted summed up my feelings perfectly so I won't bother re-writing.
This DG is like no other, what a kind, caring bunch of people genuinely passionate about animal welfare wherever it may be - keep going everyone!
Lis
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Ted
Date : 30.06.02 4:23:00 PM
Pauhla - I don't know , but will find out . Presumably this fiesta was the one where in the name of religion a poor donkey is hounded through the streets and then has rocks and stones hurled at it . Eventually the donkey is either dead or in such a bad state it has to be put down.
Strange , as I'm typing this Francesca has just walked past the window leading her 2 donkeys . Can't imagine how anyone could hurt these patient creatures.
Ted .
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Ally S
Date : 30.06.02 5:23:00 PM
I don't know if Blackie's still alive, but he was looking good a few years ago when I saw him at the Sidmouth donkey sanctuary. The sanctuary is a great place, and they do great work in rescuing, educating, campaigning and looking after the donkey's they rescue.
Ted, Blackie was rescued from the fiesta that takes place in Spain every Shrove Tuesday or pancake day. The fattest man in the village rides the donkey through the streets, and all the other men pile onto it as it goes along until it collapses. They then kick it, hoist it back up and make it continue. I understand that most of the donkeys used to die as a result of either the excess weight, trauma, getting kicked around after collapse or other brutal treatment. Since the donkey santuary have been aware, they send people every year (or certainly used to), and to the great annoyance of the fiesta revellers limit the suffering as best they can, and ensure the donkeys are at least got out of it asap and looked after from then on. Pancakes always have a bitter taste to me since I learnt of this. I don't need to tell you or anyone how I feel about it all!
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Jennifer
Date : 30.06.02 10:39:00 PM
I've read some of the Merlin threads, and like many, through tears in my eyes, but unfortunately by giving these people money to free the horses aren't we just encouraging them in their bad ways?
What incentive do they have to stop doing this if kind people are going to come along and pay over the odds for the horses the Spanish and others have abused?
We should also be educating our friends and children to not go on these rides on holiday or wherever unless you're sure the horses are being well-kept.
For instance, I've just got back from a trip to NY where the horses give carriage rides round Central Park. Now, I don't know if they go home to a nice meadow every evening and only work every other day, but in downtown Manhattan? I doubt it. I gave the horses a stroke and wished them well but did not line the pockets of their owners and I felt doubtful about the welfare of such horses.
I do believe animals should earn their keep, doing their 'horse-jobs', just as most of us have to go out and work and earn our keep, but in the same way that we demand decent working conditions, horses (and all other animals) deserve the same.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Fizz
Date : 01.07.02 12:36:00 AM
Maybe if everybody who has donated toward Merlin's Rescue Fund could also pen a letter of disgust to both the old owner AND the Spanish prime minister or some such official. Then, not only are we rescuing one poor creature, but we are also making our views known on a wider level.
This might then mitigate against the possibility of creating a market (which I am not sure I belive).
Fx
From : Polo and Junior
Date : 28.06.02 11:47:00 AM
We've heard that there are some people in this world who actually care for our fate. That's amazing and we can't wait to meet you to believe it. Our old owners didn't care about us and we were exchanged for "sports" horses with Daniel, the riding school owner/dealer. Because we were not worth much and we're quiet (dead tired in fact) we are used for school work. In fact our Polo (real name Sporting, what a laugh) here has such bad arthritis, he wouldn't think about running off so they let the smallest kids ride him - ON A LUNGE, hours on end!! And when we're not doing our circles in the heat of the school (35 - 40ยบ in summer), we stand in our dank, stuffy, dark stable, tied to the wall so we won't kick each other (as if we would, we're mates!!) to wait until we're collected to work again
(Polo: 15.3 - 16 hh, bay gelding with bad arthritis, looks more like a deer than a horse
(Junior: 16 - 16.2 hh liver chestnut gelding, very sad and very tired
(Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Su
Date : 28.06.02 12:02:00 AM
Junior sounds like he was meant for Roz with Libby!!!!
S
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Lorraine L
Date : 28.06.02 12:04:00 AM
You just keep doing it to me, don't you........wonder if Kleenex would sponsor these horses !!!!!!
xxx
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Lorraine L
Date : 28.06.02 12:12:00 AM
The three Amigos !!!!!!!
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Roz with Libby
Date : 28.06.02 3:01:00 PM
Could you let me know what kind of age Junior is. I have a feeling he's already earmarked, but thought would ask anyway.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From :
Date : 28.06.02 3:37:00 PM
Is travelling Polo all that way really a good thing?, it is not even as if he can lead a usefull and painless life when he arives back.
I used to ride for a dealer and beleive me there are many horses in this country in the same condition, I remember one cally Danny, an aged TB who had been down in the box and had cuts on his legs, very thin and lots of scars.
Before getting to know Danny I did not think a TB would be for me, but I fell in love with him but could not take him on. He is just one of hundreds of honest horses who pass through the dealers every day sometimes in apalling condition, I know I have ridden and groomed many of them. Many buyers come to view the horses and I was always honest about them and their querks, even if it meant a quiet whisper out of the dealers earshot!
Don't let sentiment take over here, and leave common sense behind!
I will now wait to be shot down in flames!
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Ally S
Date : 28.06.02 3:46:00 PM
To the anon last remark. I won't shoot you down in flames. You make a perfectly good and reasonable point. All involved in this can be accused of letting sentiment take over! However, the point is that we can't save all the poor horses in the world, but these ones have specifically been brought to our attention, and we just feel we have to help. Someone on another associated thread mentioned the ripple effect. Well that's what this is - enough ripples make a wave! If sentiment is driving it, then I remain proud of being sentimental. I agree that if Polo is not fit to travel, he shouldn't, but the chances are that if it's at all possible this horse could still have have a decent quality of life if given the chance. I know it's not much in the big picture, but these horses being helped is better than nothing isn't it?
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From :
Date : 28.06.02 3:51:00 PM
If you want a horse in need brought to attention I am sure that i and EMW followers could do this every day.
I am not getting argumentative here, although I realise it sounds like it!,
I just get annoyed at people being too sentimental and doing to much do-gooding.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From :
Date : 28.06.02 3:57:00 PM
sorry to be anon, but its for good reason, I have to agree with the previous anon in many ways, in particular that many horses in this country are indeed treated appalingly, and last year i found about 15 all in a bad way, two looked almost dead, tb types so thin and pitiful it made me cry, they had no food, water, or bedding thier feet were in a terrible state, and were all stabled (if you could call it that)and stood in mess. i reported them to the RSPCA, and nothing was done, as apparently they were under the vet.
So even though i tried i was totally unable to help, Merlin can be helped, and so why shouldn't he and his pals be taken care of, and if it doesn't work out, there is no shame in saying "I tried"
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Ally S
Date : 28.06.02 4:08:00 PM
I take your point. But it bothers me not what horse I try to assist in this life. Every bit helps, and I'm truly sorry if by trying to help these poor Spanish horses you're offended. Maybe you should do just what you suggest and bring something to everyone's attention? That's what Pauhla did and it's worked. The fact is I've seen piccies of the Spanish horses, had descriptions, know people who've seen them, found details of banks accounts to give donations to etc etc. I really understand if you're part of EMW and we're making a big deal of a few horses when you must witness some horrendous sights it must be a bit galling. But try and put it in perspective - nothing being done here will in any way take away from all the poor horses you come across. if you need help, have specific issues, horses whatever, point it out and ask for help. Please don't just attack us for being too 'do gooding'. Do gooders in my opinion do good - you're just understandably peeved that the good doing is pointed at a minority when there is a major problem here. Every bit helps, I admire tremendously what EMW do, but I'm afraid you'll never get me to apologise for trying to help any horse, however sentimental and out of proportion that may seem to you. Blimey, we're all horse lovers, and all on the same side, lets' not argue over who deserves help and who doesn't! I think it would be worth you looking at EMW and it's 'marketing' to see if you can help improve awareness or something. I mean that very constructively. There are horses all over the place that need help, but I can't see any point in pitting one good cause against another. Let's just do what we can to improve awareness of all the good things everyone is trying to do and support accordingly.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Ally S
Date : 28.06.02 4:10:00 PM
Sorry, me and the last anons messages crossed! My reply was aimed at the previous anon re EMW.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From :
Date : 28.06.02 4:14:00 PM
I take everyones point and will make this my last post.
I am not anything to do with EMW, and not heard of them until recently.
But I do like their common sense attitude and their proffessional set up.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Ally S
Date : 28.06.02 4:20:00 PM
Hey anon - we're agreed on that point at least!
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Harriet
Date : 28.06.02 4:22:00 PM
Sorry - what's EMW? I haven't heard of them before, and I guess that actually sort of proves that do-gooding - while not to everyone's taste - can raise awareness of a previously unknown case. We are now aware of Merlin and his friends and can do something to help - if we knew a bit more about EMW perhaps they could get more help too?
Heaven knows, rescuing 3 horses is little enough, when there are horses in this country in worse condition, but who are we to play God and decide what's more deserving? If we all shout loudly enough the ripples may spread widely enough to give other horses a chance.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Su
Date : 28.06.02 4:29:00 PM
Could someone please reply to Roz with Libby's email. There may be a permanent loving home waiting here with money towards the fund
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Pauhla
Date : 28.06.02 4:36:00 PM
To Anons all, I do understand totally and I don't condemn either of you for your genuine views! I have literally laid awake at night over this whole thing.Before I went to Spain, I had got to the point where I felt that Laura had to be got out (if you havn't seen the pictures of her then e-mail me pauhla@pauhla.com) as she was a complete cruelty case, but Merlin was the tip of the iceberg and where do you stop? I even went through the same "there are abused and neglected horses in the UK" scenario but that was before I actually decided to go and see for myself and I am so glad I did.Even if they aren't always enforced efficiently, we do at least have welfare acts in this country and they are in the process of being given more "teeth" to prevent rather than prosecute cruelty or neglect.
All 3 of my horses are rescues. One is owned by a large equine charity, one was a broken down horse who was going to be shot and the other had health and emotional problems and had proved unsaleable. I have done my bit for 3 horses here who would otherwise be dead and I continue to financially support UK equine charities. Donna P, wise person that she is, said to me that the motto at the animal rescue she works for in her spare time says "it's the dog on the day" and that is so true.
This is a small world now and cruelty and injustice, to both human and non-human animals is a global issue and all we can do is help where we can, where we see a need.
Perhaps there is scope for a DG charity in the future and perhaps EMW and similar organisations could benefit? Either way, the main issue is that we have, as Ally said, started the ripple and now we need to keep the momentum going and see where it ends up!
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Roz
Date : 28.06.02 4:43:00 PM
Sorry Su, there are so many threads that it's easy to miss bits but there is a post somewhere saying that Dawn has offered Junior a home and Polo is staying with Donna P with me as "guardian".They are both mid teens I believe.
Ros, could we keep you in reserve in case Dawn has to pull out for any reason as it would be good to know that he still has a home if needs be???!!!
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Pauhla
Date : 28.06.02 4:43:00 PM
Sorry, last post was From Pauhla TO Roz with Libby :0)
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : rosemary_hannah
Date : 28.06.02 8:29:00 PM
No, we can't do everything. We can do something. A long hot journey with a green field at the end has to be better than a long hot day, followed by a long hot day. If we can get this story into all the horsey press, I hope that we can raise people's awareness, and that includes about horses in this country! Maybe the next person spurred into action will take it over some poor pony stuck in horrible livery with inadequet owners - how knows?
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : another anon
Date : 28.06.02 9:18:00 PM
I too can't understand why you are trying to raise this money for one (ok, maybe 2 or 3) horse in another country. Are you going to visit other countries and do the same? Is the owner of this yard going to look after his horses properly once you have rescued these 3? What about quarantine costs?
There are plenty of needy cases at home........
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Lorraine L
Date : 28.06.02 9:34:00 PM
Hi 'another anon'
I thought that Pauhla answered most of the questions earlier in this thread, but on a purely personal note - To me, a horse in need is a needy horse no matter what its circumstances / regardless of what country he comes from.
The Spanish RSPCA are involved as a direct result of people on this site but it is not straight forward because of their - shall we say, different way of how they deal with animals as a nation.
The regulations and safeguards were all checked out by Pauhla in advance and I understand that with the correct vet checks and papers, quarantine is not necessary.
I am sure that you, like me would like to live in a world where 'rescue' was not needed and although this project is only a 'drop in the ocean' - its a start and hopefully more animals will benefit from the wonderful, sincere and generous nature of the people contributing to these threads about Merlin.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Donnaburger
Date : 30.06.02 7:44:00 AM
My reasons for offering a home to Merlin have nothing to do with the fact that there are horses here needing help.
I have rescued loads of English ones.
I worked at the local horse sales for years and believe me, l know exactly what is going on.
Merlin has the misfortune to be in Spain, where cruelty is looked on in a completely different light.
He needs help, we want to, and l`ve got room.
If my attention had been bought by a needy sole at the end of my road, l would be doing the same.
The fact that so many people are giving their time and money to this cause is justification enough, l can`t see that distance or countries should make any difference.
People will support any cause that pulls at their heartstrings, and thank god for that.
To the Anons:- If you have seen such suffering here, why haven`t you done something/anything?
I am certain that if you really want something doing, you have to be prepared to stick your necks out.
Say your who you are and why you need help, this `rescue` is surely proof of that.
IMHO
People are donating to Merlin or two other charities with a voice after all.
Donna x
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Mike(P)
Date : 30.06.02 11:00:00 AM
Hi,
I'm a little disappointed that it seems we are almost having to justify rescuing Merlin and (hopefully) friends. I have two horses both of whom were rescue cases. Troy (6) suffered severe neglect and malnutrition as a youngster and Mary (28) was due to be shot as she was no longer able to do the work required of her. She is now my sons hack and is doing a wonderful job restoring his confidence. She is in good health and is a joy to have (they both are). Like many people here I donated any spare tack etc to the Brooks Hospital appeal (Egypt) recently, I also joined the ILPH as a birthday present for myself. I have been a member of the RSPCA for many years. I am making a donation to Merlins fund. I operate and maintain (free of charge) two web sites for local animal rescue centres. One of my dogs is a rescue case. Many people on this site will tell similar stories. The thing is I like many people here I abhore cruelty to animals and will help wherever and whenever we can. If and when a needy case is brought to my attention I will do my best to try and do something constructive to help no matter where the help is needed. I have the deepest admiration for Pauhla and particularly Sandra, who dispite being out on a limb has continued to pick away at this awful situation which is right in front of her. Do we ignore her because the situation is not right in front of us? If people are encouraged to help a suffering animal, it cannot be wrong no matter where it is occuring. When these situations are sorted out, no doubt (all to quickly) another case we be brought to our attention and hopefully we can do our bit there too. Human nature being what it is we will never stamp out cruelty, and help will always be needed somewhere, and as said previously every wave starts as a ripple.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Ted
Date : 30.06.02 11:02:00 AM
I've read this thread with growing annoyance .
Firstly there is no reason on earth for anyone contributing to this dg to be anonymous . There are several DG contributors whose names I don't know , but whose pseudonyms are very familiar .
It seems to me that all these anonymous people are trying to do is add a non exsistant mystique to what they are writing .
With regard to the rescue of Merlin and other equines from abroad - this is not the first case , nor will it be the last . Have a look sometime at the work of the Elizabeth Svendsen Trust and the number of donkeys that have been rescued from abroad - and particularly those from Spain .
This particular rescue is a case of like minded people actually putting effort and money into something with a definite result in mind rather than just shouting about how bad and disgusting it is and shouldn't it be banned .
I have a had big argument with a number of organisations in the past over attention grabbing headlines , demands for things to be banned , but very little real action . Spain differs from Eastern Europe . Whatever image they may like to put out , Spain is not an impoverished backward country and there
is no real excuse for treatment of any animal in this way . Maybe as a result of what is now happening , this particular riding school owner might just be persuaded to treat his horses differently .
Yes there are horses in a sorry state in this country . There are also a zillion and one organisations whose aim in life is to help them . Some do this well , others are totally useless .
If the horses in Spain are certified fit to travel , then I for one can see nothing at all wrong with trying to improve their lives while at the same time giving a real message to the Spanish owner .
Ted .
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Fred (previously anon)
Date : 30.06.02 11:26:00 AM
erm!!
well i was anon as i'd grassed someone up for cruelty and neglect,but ok i'll call myself fred, but i wasn't slating anyone for helping merlin or any other living creature..I was saying it was a good thing he was to be helped.
I think that the other anon people should perhaps open thier hearts. Or should we just allow the starving to starve as it's ok, it's not in this country. People and animals need help the world over, and when someone is prepared to do that then, well done.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Ally S
Date : 30.06.02 11:28:00 AM
Just to say I agree 110% with everthing said by Mike P and Ted. Well said on both counts.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Pauhla
Date : 30.06.02 11:56:00 AM
The good thing here is we all have a choice...to support the appeal, or not. It is as simple as that. For those who don't wish to then that is their perrogative and it doesn't necessarily mean that because they aren't with us they are against us.
It wasn't so many years ago that the Daily Star "rescued" Blackie the donkey very publicly from being used in a Spanish fiesta (did he go to Sidmouth in the end Ted???) and the general concensus at the time seemed be that this was a good thing to do.
Without trying to make comparisons, the Ethiopian Appeal in the 80's sparked peoples need to help. We knew there were deserving cases in this country too and probably the same peopele gave regularly to Children in Need etc. We all do what we can, where we see a need and it is our choice.So, for those anons who have reservations, and who probably support other causes in other ways, perhaps we should look at the wider picture and be glad that we are still compassionate enough to be moved and moved enough to act.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Jane
Date : 30.06.02 12:10:00 AM
Hi, I just wanted to say that I think it's wonderful that somebody is trying to help an animal in need, it shouldn't matter what country they are in. A few weeks ago we found a very old pony living in a small field on his own with only an old water building for shelter, all the windows were broken. He was in bad condition, after tracking down the owner he said that he hadn't been to see the horse in 3 years. He handed the pony over to my friend saying she could find a new home for it if she could be bothered. I phoned over 25 rescue centres and only one said that his case was bad enough to be taken on.
The people from the centre drove 4 hours to come down and get him. Even though the horse had had no horse or human company for years, he was remarkably friendly. He enjoyed his few weeks in the centres large fields and warm stable but then he had to be laid to rest. It was found that he had cancer and a tumour in his sheath, that it had eaten away half his penis.
I feel sad that I couldn't have found a new home for him sooner, maybe then he wouldn't have had to suffer so much. But even after that the case didn't stop there. We are being sued by the 'owner' who believes the horse was never put to sleep, that he was sold so that my friend could buy a new horse. The case is now with the RSPCA who hope to prosecute this man for neglect.
So everyone out there who is rescueing horses or making their lives a little better then PLEASE CONTINUE, there are thousands of neglected horses out there who need help.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Lorraine L
Date : 30.06.02 1:28:00 PM
Dear Jane, Ted and Mike,
Thanks so much for all of your support and those encouraging words......it means an awful lot.
xxx
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Lis
Date : 30.06.02 4:15:00 PM
I find it very sad that people condemn those who are trying to help a needy case wherever it may be.
Mike P and Ted summed up my feelings perfectly so I won't bother re-writing.
This DG is like no other, what a kind, caring bunch of people genuinely passionate about animal welfare wherever it may be - keep going everyone!
Lis
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Ted
Date : 30.06.02 4:23:00 PM
Pauhla - I don't know , but will find out . Presumably this fiesta was the one where in the name of religion a poor donkey is hounded through the streets and then has rocks and stones hurled at it . Eventually the donkey is either dead or in such a bad state it has to be put down.
Strange , as I'm typing this Francesca has just walked past the window leading her 2 donkeys . Can't imagine how anyone could hurt these patient creatures.
Ted .
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Ally S
Date : 30.06.02 5:23:00 PM
I don't know if Blackie's still alive, but he was looking good a few years ago when I saw him at the Sidmouth donkey sanctuary. The sanctuary is a great place, and they do great work in rescuing, educating, campaigning and looking after the donkey's they rescue.
Ted, Blackie was rescued from the fiesta that takes place in Spain every Shrove Tuesday or pancake day. The fattest man in the village rides the donkey through the streets, and all the other men pile onto it as it goes along until it collapses. They then kick it, hoist it back up and make it continue. I understand that most of the donkeys used to die as a result of either the excess weight, trauma, getting kicked around after collapse or other brutal treatment. Since the donkey santuary have been aware, they send people every year (or certainly used to), and to the great annoyance of the fiesta revellers limit the suffering as best they can, and ensure the donkeys are at least got out of it asap and looked after from then on. Pancakes always have a bitter taste to me since I learnt of this. I don't need to tell you or anyone how I feel about it all!
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Jennifer
Date : 30.06.02 10:39:00 PM
I've read some of the Merlin threads, and like many, through tears in my eyes, but unfortunately by giving these people money to free the horses aren't we just encouraging them in their bad ways?
What incentive do they have to stop doing this if kind people are going to come along and pay over the odds for the horses the Spanish and others have abused?
We should also be educating our friends and children to not go on these rides on holiday or wherever unless you're sure the horses are being well-kept.
For instance, I've just got back from a trip to NY where the horses give carriage rides round Central Park. Now, I don't know if they go home to a nice meadow every evening and only work every other day, but in downtown Manhattan? I doubt it. I gave the horses a stroke and wished them well but did not line the pockets of their owners and I felt doubtful about the welfare of such horses.
I do believe animals should earn their keep, doing their 'horse-jobs', just as most of us have to go out and work and earn our keep, but in the same way that we demand decent working conditions, horses (and all other animals) deserve the same.
Subject : re:- MERLIN's STABLEMATES
From : Fizz
Date : 01.07.02 12:36:00 AM
Maybe if everybody who has donated toward Merlin's Rescue Fund could also pen a letter of disgust to both the old owner AND the Spanish prime minister or some such official. Then, not only are we rescuing one poor creature, but we are also making our views known on a wider level.
This might then mitigate against the possibility of creating a market (which I am not sure I belive).
Fx