Post by Susan on Aug 5, 2005 23:43:40 GMT 1
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From : Val (toons&co)
Date : 02.08.05 9:58:00 AM
I started to learn to ride late - at 18 - that was nearly 20 years ago. I was a week-end rider going for my weekly lesson at the local riding schools and went in a mixed age group according to my 'level' (that's in Belgium btw).
I felt what I was mainly taught was to sit tight (but still had loads of falls), correct my position (i.e. tense up feet, legs, back and arms so that they would stay where they should), control the horse's speed (i.e. kick or whip to go faster and pull with both hands to slow down), control the direction (i.e. pull with one hand). I'm exaggerating a bit as I remember in the intermediate level, we were vaguely taught to use finer rein aids and to trot/canter on the correct lead.
Then I started individual Western riding lessons. What a difference! My position requirements were lowered to good enough not to interfere with the horse so that I would relax - after more than 10 years of riding I finally discovered it was possible to relax in a saddle - altho I must admit that after nearly 3 years without a lesson my bad position habits have come back with a vengeance. But I learned how to exercise a horse so that every muscle of his body is being 'warmed up' and what movement uses what muscles. I learned how to feel the horse moving. I was taught to use voice and seat before I use reins and legs. I was taught to move every part of my horses' body idependently. I was taught to collect my horse and make him work from behind.
I am not and never will be a good rider in the sense I will never have a perfect position or dare to do a Xcountry course but I understand the mechanics of riding a horse and really enjoy schooling my horse with a purpose.
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From :
Date : 02.08.05 2:54:00 PM
every one is taught differently,just as long as you enjoy your horse why worry how others ride,dont be so snobby.
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From :
Date : 02.08.05 5:12:00 PM
You've missed the point, anon at 2.54p.m.!!! The people posting above are concernec about the welfare of the horse - so many riders are very thoughtless and inconsiderate with regard to the horses they ride, primarily because they have NOT been taught properly. There is nothing snobby about it - and what a silly word that is!
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From : Heather Moffett
Date : 02.08.05 5:32:00 PM
Amen, 12.00pm!!!
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From : Susan
Date : 02.08.05 6:24:00 PM
Snobby to be able to ride correctly so you can enjoy your horse more securely and "Feel" and understand what happens as he picks up one foot before he places it and picks up another!
Secure incase they suddenly spook! and be able to control the back end that wants to turn its backside suddenly into the road of a passing car!
To hopefully not ride out of control and just try to be at one with your horse.
Imagine how much more enjoyable that is! priceless.................!
Well sorry if that is Snobby. Im no 1 in the queue!
That is all I seek
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From :
Date : 02.08.05 6:49:00 PM
I've recently taken on two young sharers for my horses, as I have an injury which prevents me riding. They're both 14, and seemed eager to learn - they've been riding at a local, BHS approved and respected centre for 7 years. Although one of the girls seems to be a bit of a natural, they both had appalling positions, and my horses initially had no clue what was being asked of them. They were so eager to start learning to handle and ride better, that I offered to give them three lessons a week for the time being, so that the horses are getting some exercise.
After just a month, one girls father came and spoke to me, and asked if I would teach her permanently, and he would pay extra for the lessons - I had to say no as I'm not insured to teach, but that I was happy for her to continue coming and paying for the horse on part share, and I'd continue to teach her. Curious, I asked why he wanted me to teach her, and he told me that at her weekly riding lesson, the instructor had said how much her position had improved in the last month, how much more effective her riding had been, and that she'd shown more skill as a rider in that month than she had the entire time she'd ridden with them.
Even more curious, I went to watch a jumping lesson they had booked last week. Although I'd seen some improvement in both girls, I didn't think it was that drastic - watching the lesson I was disgusted. I came home with phrases such as 'Kick! Kick! Kick, hard!', 'Right rein, hard! Yank his head round, get him in the corner!', 'Hit him! Use your whip, hit him hard!', 'Give his bit a jerk, don't let him put his head down.' ringing in my ears. One horse in particular would veer in from the track (cue 'Right rein hard!'), and when I asked the instructor why she didn't encourage the rider to put her leg on to move him over, she told me 'oh, they don't need to learn how to do that.'
Everything was 'hard' - no mention was made of encouraging a horse to soften, none were asked for a gentle squeeze to move forwards. All in all I found it a most unpleasant experience, and certainly wouldn't recommend the place to anyone.
I'm now having to teach these girls the basics almost from scratch, as if they get on my horses and yank their heads about and kick them in the ribs, they'll soon find themselves laid out on the floor!
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From : SR
Date : 02.08.05 8:27:00 PM
I'm ashamed to admit that I thought I was an okay rider until I started riding again and changed schools. I now know the school where I was "taught" has quite a bad reputation but when I was younger I knew no different. At my new riding school the kids are taught straight from the start the correct ways. If they loose interest then fine but my instructor will not have anyone doing any damage to her horses in any form, and the kids love it!
I recently was speaking to a girl who rides at my old school and I was telling her about my last lesson - turning on the fore, leg yeilding etc and she just looked totally blank.
She is considered one of the best riders at the school and has been going for years - she's 25, the school is BHS supported and they are still not teaching her anything!
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From : Tara
Date : 02.08.05 8:41:00 PM
I can see where you are all coming from I tought I could ride till I changed my instructor. Since I've been with my current one my feel and seat have improved no end, of course this has had a large impacted on my horse we have started this week working at medium level dressage. We did our first canter halfpass tonight and wow did it feel good knwoing that is was done correct. One of the girls at my yard had been having lessons for two years with the same teacher not improving or doing things the correct way, she ended up having a lesson after mine to find to her shoulder-In which she was always being told was good was only a neck bend and has had to learn it right from the start. I find this sad that her old teacher kept taking the £20 each week but did not once inform her of what she should be doing or how let alone doing this type of exercise the right way for both horse and rider. Such a basic thing as bending the correct way was never pulled up on now she has a crocked horse never mind about balance etc. Such a shame it happerns to many riders including me in my early days.
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From :
Date : 02.08.05 9:43:00 PM
Heather Moffet can you give your website. Id also be interested in a good instructor in SW Wales please!
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From : Laura (Taz)
Date : 02.08.05 10:15:00 PM
Thank you all for your input folks ....... even anon here "every one is taught differently,just as long as you enjoy your horse why worry how others ride,dont be so snobby"
I agree that it matters not that methods differ .......I agree that one should enjoy ones horse . HOWEVER as others have said ...... ITS BASIC SAFETY
if you cannot move a horses backside over if its about to kick another, or out oF the way of a car THEN YOU ARE NOT SAFE !
If you cannot reverse a horse back up if it oversteps at a road junction THEN YOU ARE NOT SAFE!
If you cannot ask a horse to move sideways if it moves into the middle of the raod 'cause its afraid of somthing ( moving just the head means the bum prob move out further inot path of cars !!! )THEN YOU ARE NOT SAFE
I know because I have seen these situations occur !!!!!!!!!
OK I am certainly not at the stage of canter half pass etc ...... but it seems that at least it has reassured me that I seem to have the basics at least right and if I encourage the young lady sharer to get back to basics she will perhaps be able to be a safer rider LOL .... I mean at least once she can reverse she will be able to rectify the situation of overstepping the road junction when she could not halt properly either !!!!! Dont worry folks she was in no danger as I was in the lead and the junction clear , it was an exercise !!!
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From : Heather Moffett
Date : 02.08.05 10:54:00 PM
website is www.enlightenedequitation.com. Hmmm, South Wales is not a place where I know of anyone I can recommend. I am in the process of training a group of EE teachers, but we dont have anyone in S Wales. Which town are you closest to?
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From :
Date : 03.08.05 0:11:00 AM
Swansea have been looking for a good instructor for ages. Sick of getting nowhere. Thanks for your responce, I have found your site.
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From :
Date : 03.08.05 8:19:00 AM
Good discussion with some very valid points.
From experience i believe part of the problem is that instructors generally make their living from teaching. This puts pressure on them to get the pupil to come back to them time and again. This then leads to pressure on the FIRST lesson to get results thusleading to the 'quick fix'
I'm not talking about complete novices at riding schools here but supposedly experienced riders going to an instructor for private lessons. The tone of the first lesson sets the theme for all future interaction between pupil and rider so there is great pressure on the instructor to give the rider what they WANT rather than what they NEED.
For example I teach a small group of people purely because I enjoy it and do not make a living from it (I have a well paid full time job) so I really dont give a dam whether they come back to me or not.
Recently I started riding a horse for someone at a new yard. One of the liveries there found out I do teach occasionally and asked if i would give her a lesson. She has a very nice horse, has been riding many years, had a lot of lessons from some very expensive instructors and regularly competes in dressage.
After watching her warm up for 15 minutes (saying nothing) we had a very frank discussion about what I thought was wrong. For the next hour she didn't get out of walk the entire lesson. Now if I was relying on her as income would I have had the guts to do that?
She has continued to have lessons with me to her credit and has seen real benefit in her dressage scores. But she has had to go right back to what i call basics.
As a pupil she really WANTS to learn but there are a lot out there who just want to be told how well they ride.
I think some understanding of the pressure on instructors to satisfy pupils is required when they make a living from it. For an instructor to teach the pupil has to want to learn
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From : Finn
Date : 03.08.05 8:36:00 AM
I read somewhere that students at the Spanish Riding School are made to do the first six months of their training in walk. By contrast, by lesson 4 I was doing a bit of jumping!!! (titchy fence, but still....) Ok, I'd come back after a long break and it was fun too, intended to perk us up and let us feel like we'd got somewhere--which of course we had. I've liked all my instructors so far, and they've been very good on many things. All the same I still think there are so many utterly basic things I'm not doing right. I'd be quite happy to do a whole lesson in walk, 8.19 if it helped sort out stuff I'm not so good on!!!
So, folks. I'm in North Wales. Any recommendations for an instructor round here?
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From :
Date : 03.08.05 8:42:00 AM
"Spanish Riding School are made to do the first six months of their training in walk"
not true
but they DO spend 6 months on the lungeline developing a seat (in walk, trot, canter, piaffe and passage)
From : Val (toons&co)
Date : 02.08.05 9:58:00 AM
I started to learn to ride late - at 18 - that was nearly 20 years ago. I was a week-end rider going for my weekly lesson at the local riding schools and went in a mixed age group according to my 'level' (that's in Belgium btw).
I felt what I was mainly taught was to sit tight (but still had loads of falls), correct my position (i.e. tense up feet, legs, back and arms so that they would stay where they should), control the horse's speed (i.e. kick or whip to go faster and pull with both hands to slow down), control the direction (i.e. pull with one hand). I'm exaggerating a bit as I remember in the intermediate level, we were vaguely taught to use finer rein aids and to trot/canter on the correct lead.
Then I started individual Western riding lessons. What a difference! My position requirements were lowered to good enough not to interfere with the horse so that I would relax - after more than 10 years of riding I finally discovered it was possible to relax in a saddle - altho I must admit that after nearly 3 years without a lesson my bad position habits have come back with a vengeance. But I learned how to exercise a horse so that every muscle of his body is being 'warmed up' and what movement uses what muscles. I learned how to feel the horse moving. I was taught to use voice and seat before I use reins and legs. I was taught to move every part of my horses' body idependently. I was taught to collect my horse and make him work from behind.
I am not and never will be a good rider in the sense I will never have a perfect position or dare to do a Xcountry course but I understand the mechanics of riding a horse and really enjoy schooling my horse with a purpose.
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From :
Date : 02.08.05 2:54:00 PM
every one is taught differently,just as long as you enjoy your horse why worry how others ride,dont be so snobby.
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From :
Date : 02.08.05 5:12:00 PM
You've missed the point, anon at 2.54p.m.!!! The people posting above are concernec about the welfare of the horse - so many riders are very thoughtless and inconsiderate with regard to the horses they ride, primarily because they have NOT been taught properly. There is nothing snobby about it - and what a silly word that is!
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From : Heather Moffett
Date : 02.08.05 5:32:00 PM
Amen, 12.00pm!!!
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From : Susan
Date : 02.08.05 6:24:00 PM
Snobby to be able to ride correctly so you can enjoy your horse more securely and "Feel" and understand what happens as he picks up one foot before he places it and picks up another!
Secure incase they suddenly spook! and be able to control the back end that wants to turn its backside suddenly into the road of a passing car!
To hopefully not ride out of control and just try to be at one with your horse.
Imagine how much more enjoyable that is! priceless.................!
Well sorry if that is Snobby. Im no 1 in the queue!
That is all I seek
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From :
Date : 02.08.05 6:49:00 PM
I've recently taken on two young sharers for my horses, as I have an injury which prevents me riding. They're both 14, and seemed eager to learn - they've been riding at a local, BHS approved and respected centre for 7 years. Although one of the girls seems to be a bit of a natural, they both had appalling positions, and my horses initially had no clue what was being asked of them. They were so eager to start learning to handle and ride better, that I offered to give them three lessons a week for the time being, so that the horses are getting some exercise.
After just a month, one girls father came and spoke to me, and asked if I would teach her permanently, and he would pay extra for the lessons - I had to say no as I'm not insured to teach, but that I was happy for her to continue coming and paying for the horse on part share, and I'd continue to teach her. Curious, I asked why he wanted me to teach her, and he told me that at her weekly riding lesson, the instructor had said how much her position had improved in the last month, how much more effective her riding had been, and that she'd shown more skill as a rider in that month than she had the entire time she'd ridden with them.
Even more curious, I went to watch a jumping lesson they had booked last week. Although I'd seen some improvement in both girls, I didn't think it was that drastic - watching the lesson I was disgusted. I came home with phrases such as 'Kick! Kick! Kick, hard!', 'Right rein, hard! Yank his head round, get him in the corner!', 'Hit him! Use your whip, hit him hard!', 'Give his bit a jerk, don't let him put his head down.' ringing in my ears. One horse in particular would veer in from the track (cue 'Right rein hard!'), and when I asked the instructor why she didn't encourage the rider to put her leg on to move him over, she told me 'oh, they don't need to learn how to do that.'
Everything was 'hard' - no mention was made of encouraging a horse to soften, none were asked for a gentle squeeze to move forwards. All in all I found it a most unpleasant experience, and certainly wouldn't recommend the place to anyone.
I'm now having to teach these girls the basics almost from scratch, as if they get on my horses and yank their heads about and kick them in the ribs, they'll soon find themselves laid out on the floor!
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From : SR
Date : 02.08.05 8:27:00 PM
I'm ashamed to admit that I thought I was an okay rider until I started riding again and changed schools. I now know the school where I was "taught" has quite a bad reputation but when I was younger I knew no different. At my new riding school the kids are taught straight from the start the correct ways. If they loose interest then fine but my instructor will not have anyone doing any damage to her horses in any form, and the kids love it!
I recently was speaking to a girl who rides at my old school and I was telling her about my last lesson - turning on the fore, leg yeilding etc and she just looked totally blank.
She is considered one of the best riders at the school and has been going for years - she's 25, the school is BHS supported and they are still not teaching her anything!
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From : Tara
Date : 02.08.05 8:41:00 PM
I can see where you are all coming from I tought I could ride till I changed my instructor. Since I've been with my current one my feel and seat have improved no end, of course this has had a large impacted on my horse we have started this week working at medium level dressage. We did our first canter halfpass tonight and wow did it feel good knwoing that is was done correct. One of the girls at my yard had been having lessons for two years with the same teacher not improving or doing things the correct way, she ended up having a lesson after mine to find to her shoulder-In which she was always being told was good was only a neck bend and has had to learn it right from the start. I find this sad that her old teacher kept taking the £20 each week but did not once inform her of what she should be doing or how let alone doing this type of exercise the right way for both horse and rider. Such a basic thing as bending the correct way was never pulled up on now she has a crocked horse never mind about balance etc. Such a shame it happerns to many riders including me in my early days.
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From :
Date : 02.08.05 9:43:00 PM
Heather Moffet can you give your website. Id also be interested in a good instructor in SW Wales please!
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From : Laura (Taz)
Date : 02.08.05 10:15:00 PM
Thank you all for your input folks ....... even anon here "every one is taught differently,just as long as you enjoy your horse why worry how others ride,dont be so snobby"
I agree that it matters not that methods differ .......I agree that one should enjoy ones horse . HOWEVER as others have said ...... ITS BASIC SAFETY
if you cannot move a horses backside over if its about to kick another, or out oF the way of a car THEN YOU ARE NOT SAFE !
If you cannot reverse a horse back up if it oversteps at a road junction THEN YOU ARE NOT SAFE!
If you cannot ask a horse to move sideways if it moves into the middle of the raod 'cause its afraid of somthing ( moving just the head means the bum prob move out further inot path of cars !!! )THEN YOU ARE NOT SAFE
I know because I have seen these situations occur !!!!!!!!!
OK I am certainly not at the stage of canter half pass etc ...... but it seems that at least it has reassured me that I seem to have the basics at least right and if I encourage the young lady sharer to get back to basics she will perhaps be able to be a safer rider LOL .... I mean at least once she can reverse she will be able to rectify the situation of overstepping the road junction when she could not halt properly either !!!!! Dont worry folks she was in no danger as I was in the lead and the junction clear , it was an exercise !!!
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From : Heather Moffett
Date : 02.08.05 10:54:00 PM
website is www.enlightenedequitation.com. Hmmm, South Wales is not a place where I know of anyone I can recommend. I am in the process of training a group of EE teachers, but we dont have anyone in S Wales. Which town are you closest to?
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From :
Date : 03.08.05 0:11:00 AM
Swansea have been looking for a good instructor for ages. Sick of getting nowhere. Thanks for your responce, I have found your site.
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From :
Date : 03.08.05 8:19:00 AM
Good discussion with some very valid points.
From experience i believe part of the problem is that instructors generally make their living from teaching. This puts pressure on them to get the pupil to come back to them time and again. This then leads to pressure on the FIRST lesson to get results thusleading to the 'quick fix'
I'm not talking about complete novices at riding schools here but supposedly experienced riders going to an instructor for private lessons. The tone of the first lesson sets the theme for all future interaction between pupil and rider so there is great pressure on the instructor to give the rider what they WANT rather than what they NEED.
For example I teach a small group of people purely because I enjoy it and do not make a living from it (I have a well paid full time job) so I really dont give a dam whether they come back to me or not.
Recently I started riding a horse for someone at a new yard. One of the liveries there found out I do teach occasionally and asked if i would give her a lesson. She has a very nice horse, has been riding many years, had a lot of lessons from some very expensive instructors and regularly competes in dressage.
After watching her warm up for 15 minutes (saying nothing) we had a very frank discussion about what I thought was wrong. For the next hour she didn't get out of walk the entire lesson. Now if I was relying on her as income would I have had the guts to do that?
She has continued to have lessons with me to her credit and has seen real benefit in her dressage scores. But she has had to go right back to what i call basics.
As a pupil she really WANTS to learn but there are a lot out there who just want to be told how well they ride.
I think some understanding of the pressure on instructors to satisfy pupils is required when they make a living from it. For an instructor to teach the pupil has to want to learn
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From : Finn
Date : 03.08.05 8:36:00 AM
I read somewhere that students at the Spanish Riding School are made to do the first six months of their training in walk. By contrast, by lesson 4 I was doing a bit of jumping!!! (titchy fence, but still....) Ok, I'd come back after a long break and it was fun too, intended to perk us up and let us feel like we'd got somewhere--which of course we had. I've liked all my instructors so far, and they've been very good on many things. All the same I still think there are so many utterly basic things I'm not doing right. I'd be quite happy to do a whole lesson in walk, 8.19 if it helped sort out stuff I'm not so good on!!!
So, folks. I'm in North Wales. Any recommendations for an instructor round here?
Subject : re:- Basic riding skills
From :
Date : 03.08.05 8:42:00 AM
"Spanish Riding School are made to do the first six months of their training in walk"
not true
but they DO spend 6 months on the lungeline developing a seat (in walk, trot, canter, piaffe and passage)
