Another laminitic Shetland - Italy

[Nikki Italy]

Coco my Shetland has suffered from cronic laminitus for as long as I can remember, but this summer it's worse than ever. Having got her through the so called 'bad-time' early Spring, into Summer, in an enclosure infront of the house, she has spent 4 days a week in with the others on 15 acrea's of hill-side, where is is absolutely nothing, but nothing for them to eat other than the shrubs and trees that grow there....I have started feeding them 3 times a day again, and obviously Coco gets reduced quantities and no hard feed. I have brought her in again as she can barely walk, put her on anti-inflamatories and a restricted diet. Her feet were trimmed back 2 weeks ago. What else can I do for her? She is 22 yrs old, and in pain. Obviously in a day or two I will call the vet, again, for her, and hopefully he will give her a powerful shot of something, but this isn't going to help/cure in the long run. Does anyone know of what else I can do to help over time. Many thanks in advance....

[LynnG]

Sorry to hear this Nikki..and no real advice to offer as I havent really experienced laminitis..only a few times and it was stress induced.
Have you spoken with anyone at the lamimitis trust place?
Maybe they can come up with something?
I am sure though that there are lots on here who can offer some good advice based on their own experiences.
Good Luck

LynnG x

[kas]

Oh no - not again! Could it be that it isn't food related? I'm not sure what else, but thinking about things like stress and concussion. Although Coco never seems very stressed and I'm sure she doesn't run about so much on the hard ground since Lona went feral.

[roo]

Hi Nikki - Smartie is prone to laminitus and we were told to only feed him hay that has been soaked for 24 hours. He's allowed ad lib soaked hay but no hard feed......he just has a tiny amount of blue chip (less than a 1/2 tea cup full!) and magnesium/garlic supplements. Our vet advised to keep his hay intake up as if they have too little to eat that can also trigger an attack. There is also thought (but not proven) to be a link with lack of magnesium and laminitis - hence our boy being on mag supplement. He's an exmoor shetty cross. Dont know if this is any help but echo Lynne the laminitis trust is a great place to get advice. Good luck.

[twiglet]

Hi Nikki - Have you looked into the possibility of using Founderguard?

[Sutton]

What I have done this year is to have mag oxide and Naf Detox and muzzles on whilst out on the grass. They are in a small paddock overnight with hay only. I've also noticed that the hard ground makes a lot of difference and the more grass there is, the softer it is and the better my pony walks. So you've probably got the extreme of hard ground in Italy. Sorry Nikki it's really trial and error as you don't know exactly what sets it off. Could be IR, could be onset of Cushings, could be concussion.

[Ann NF]

Hi Nikki,
Oh dear...poor Coco.
Thinking back to when Flaky had it... She had Lilypad frog supports on for two weeks to try and prevent the pedal bone dropping/ rotating ( vet supplied these). She had Sedalin gel which contains ACP. This both sedated her and apparently the ACP dilates blood capillaries in the laminae so improves circulation and hopefully aids healing. Regular Bute for the pain. A deep shavings bed for the first two weeks then out in a tiny paddock with soaked hay and Hi Fi Lite feeds . She had Farriers Formula for nine months which helped her horrible looking ridged hooves to grow back normally again. She now has a small cup of Blue Chip in her nightly HI Fi feed as the yea sacc keeps the hind gut environment healthy and hopefully helps to prevent the toxins that can be absorbed and then cause laminitis.
Have you looked on The Laminitis Trust website. Lots of good info on there. Jackie A Taylor on here could maybe help with diet and supplements?
I suppose Cushings and metabolic disorder/ insulin resistance is possible in view of her age?
Fingers crossed for her and I hope she`s not in too much pain.

[Nikki Italy]

Thank you all....the last time I spoke to the Vet he said the worst thing for her was trundling around after Hercules on the hillside, bruising her feet as she goes. She is now hobbling, hopping lame in her 2 front feet, although this morning, after two days on a human pain-killer, she seems to be standing better, and walking more freely. I started her off a month ago on mag. oxide, but seeing her now makes me think that nothing has changed, however, I will still continue, as it may be an accumalative thing, and eventually work(?) Thanks Twiglet, I will look up Founderguard and see what it is, and look into it. Muzzles aren't necessary I don't think Sutton at the moment as there really isn't anything for them to browse on, although she must be finding something to bring this one, so perhaps I'll look into this. Soaking the hay is a good thought Roo, and will start immediately. Off to find the Laminitic Trust web-site, does anyone know it off-hand?

[Ann NF]

Hi Nikki,
It is on www.laminitis.org

[wendyihts]

Nikki, would it be possible for you to PM Jackie Taylor and ask her about how to get Coco tested for insulin resistance and cushings disease? Both these things can keep horses on the edge of laminitis and tipping over into the disease for years, especially older ponies (I think).

Also, check your pasture for trees and shrubs that may have a level of toxicity. E.g. oak trees/saplings, acacia, or anything that you've seen her browsing.

My Jaime Jackson book on Founder basically says that it's a symptom of some kind of toxic overload in the horse's system - stress can disrupt gut bacteria, causing it to release toxins, as can particular plants, too much sugar in the foodstuff, worming, medication - the list is endless but the key is finding the triggers and maybe the predisposing factors (e.g. Cushings).

[roo]

Nikki the mag supplement does seem to need to be fed for some weeks before you see a difference if its used for behavioural issues.....though it may not be a factor in Coco's case. And Wendy's right about having to find the trigger. Its such a minefield isnt it! Good luck though and I'll keep my fingers crossed for Coco. I do hope she gets better soon.

[Nikki Italy]

How really interesting, and I'm going to walk around today with my plant book, (as I don't know them all) and see what else they have apart from Olive and Oak, Spanish Broom and Apple trees to browse on. When the Vet comes out, as he will eventually will, I'll ask him to test her for insulin resistance, but what on earth is Cushing's in Italian?!!!!! (never mind I'll get there!) This time last year, roughly, Coco was back in front of the house due to what the Vet said was a 'poisoning'...her liver was packing-up and she had to have a VERY expensive supplement for a month to cleanse her liver and get her right. She did get right, and was fine for 8 months or so, then Spring came and she was back here in front on her restricted diet to 'prevent' laminitus, which I thought we'd got through until now, but the symptoms are all the same again as the poisoning, and strangely no heat in the hooves. So everything you all say makes sense, and I'll be out there making notes on what I've got. Thanks again, and I'll let you know.

[wendyihts]

The Oak and Spanish Broom would be my favourites as culprits, just from that list. I seem to remember that Broom is poisonous anyway (unless Spanish Broom is a different sort), and Oak is definitely, particularly when the acorns are falling. Horses can literally become addicted to Acorns, which are full of tannins.

[monet]

hi nikky

my little dartmoor bracken is suffering as well at the moment with chronic laminitus and what i have done is to tape off a small bit of field put in a friend and my vet has given me ACP tablets as well as bute, i have also put her on asonite and rux tox [homeopathy] , you may have used ACP before but i have found this year it has really helped the vet said it would take the "throbbing" out of the foot and with in hours she was much happier, the asonite is to help detox the liver and for shock to the system, i no i should be looking to keep her off the medication but if it stops the pain then i will still use it.

hope she feels better soon.

[Val (Toons&co)]

Hi Nikki, Sorry about Coco being in pain. As Wendy says, quite a few things can trigger laminitis and from what you say it could be one of the culprits is in the field, but when it becomes chronic it is always worth looking into endocrine/metabolic causes anyway.

Cushings is the same word in French (but with a different accent) so I guess it's someone's name. I hope your vet is more willing to do proper tests then the 3 i got to see my mare. To them Cushings is mainly a dog's disease and cushings symptoms in horses are just old age. It would be good to go on Jackie's website groups.yahoo.com/group/TheMetabolicHorse/ as 'continental vets' often don't know how to diagnose cushings even if they are willing. She's away for the moment and probably hasn't signed in on here yet for this reason, but her site has lots of files on testing etc.

Good luck with treatment - also echo the hay soaking by the way. Val xxxx