Post by Admin on Aug 4, 2005 14:16:43 GMT 1
Subject : What is cribbing??
From :
Date : 27.06.05 7:50:00 PM
I know i sound stupid but can someone explain what cribbing is?
and would anyone not buy a horse because it cribs?
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : Jenny
Date : 27.06.05 7:57:00 PM
Not totally sure of the fine details, but crib biting is when the horse bites, usually a fence, and sucks air in. It can cause horses to get splinters in their throat, and it destroys fences, also others can catch the habit which is why cribbers tend to be cheaper It can be caused by boredom or the horse having stomach ulcers if it only cribs around meal times. I don't know of any horses who have stopped crib biting, but their must be a way.
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : Ellie
Date : 27.06.05 8:16:00 PM
i wouldnt get a crib biter but as jenny explained they usually suck on a fence.but oif it is the horse/pony of your dreams then get it and buy a crib coller it jusat goes round there neck and when they crib bite it hurts them or sumut so they eventually stop.it worked on a horse on my yard. it can also cause kolic if thats how you spell it?
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : Jenny
Date : 27.06.05 8:29:00 PM
I used to know a horse who wore a crib collar but it never worked, it's possible that people were worried about putting it on too tight as many people handled him (he was a star though, Spider) You can also buy tar-like paint which makes the fence taste nasty, like nail varnish for people who bite their nails!
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : Jenny
Date : 27.06.05 8:30:00 PM
I think colic starts with a 'c'
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From :
Date : 28.06.05 7:51:00 AM
Do a search on "crib" or windsucking and you'll have plenty of information about it.
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : CH
Date : 28.06.05 8:39:00 AM
Cribbing is not catching. I have a chronic cribber out of a total of 7 horses and none of them copy.
I would say that Josh has at some point developed stomach ulcers as a reaction to being stabled too long in the past. He has then basically become addicted to the endophin rush that cribbing gives him. He is a born worrier of a horse too which seems to go hand in hand.
Maximum turnout - pref 24 x 7 - antacids, a forage feed only, no sweeties (apples especially set him off), and a strip of electric tape to protect your best fences are the best ways to prevent cribbing. I would never stop him cribbing because its something he needs to do - and therefore he is allowed to do it in certain areas.
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : JS
Date : 28.06.05 8:55:00 AM
A cribber will destroy your fences and stable unless you take steps as above to stop them. However I know of fantastic horses who have been wonderful servants over the years and great performers who have also been cribbers, so the owners are happy to put up with what they do in their spare time!
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From :
Date : 28.06.05 9:12:00 AM
How do i know if my horse is doing it out of boredom or has a stomach ulcer??
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : CH
Date : 28.06.05 9:25:00 AM
Anon above, the only way to know for sure is to have a vet perform a laproscopy thingy I guess...
You could also look at the management side of things:
1. How long has he done it
2. Is it affecting his condition
3. What sparks off a bout of cribbing?
4. Does he do it in the field?
5. Before/after meal times religiously?
6. Whats his diet consist of?
I call my boy a cribber, but what he really is is a windsucker, in that he hooks his teeth onto a post and gulps down air - but he still wrecks fences with the force of pulling back against them.
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : Amelia (sunny&shanti)
Date : 28.06.05 9:45:00 AM
Crib-biting is a stereotypic behaviour - it is a repetitive behaviour that appears to have no visible desirable outcome. The horse grasps a fixed object with its teeth and draws back. A characteristic grunt is heard that people often mistake for air being sucked in, but actually its been found that this isn't the case and no air is actually sucked.
The two main theories that are viable are:
1 - Stress-coping. Stress causes acid build up - horse crib-bites- endorphins released and antacid in the saliva - causes horse to relax. the horse can then get fixed on this natural 'high' and it becomes a habit. This is backed up by research showing that high concentrate feed can cause gastric ulcers and the antacid in saliva soothes it. Could be a combination of stress and poor diet.
2. Frustrated motivation - horses are designed to live out 24/7 and are trickle feeders. When kept in and given only 2 feeds/day and limited hay the horse's natural lifestyle is compromised and can cause horse to crib-bite. This is linked very closely to above theory as diet also plays a big part.
It's probably a mix of both theories in most cases. The diet and stress theory is well supported because research has shown that many horses begin crib-biting at weaning time when they are stressed and have a sudden diet change from fat (of milk) and fibre (grass) to high protein (concentrates).
The behaviour can rarely be stopped once it is fixed. It is extremely detrimental to the welfare of the horse to try and prevent the horse from cribbing. It is best to allow the horse 24/7 turnout, very low concentrates and high fibre diet and a safe non-abrasive surface to crib-bite on.
Hope this helps (learnt this at Hartpury from one of the leading researchers)
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : CH
Date : 28.06.05 9:49:00 AM
Thats interesting - my horse defintiely sucks in air - you can hear it in his gut until he belches - then he stops cribbing...
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : Amelia
Date : 28.06.05 9:55:00 AM
Have a search for scientific journals that contain research into it not sure which ones don't require a login though. Think the air sucking thoery was disproved a long time ago, they claim that air comes in but goes out again and that's when you hear the grunt. Basically they just wanted to let people realise that the air does not go in and stay in as people were saying that this was related to colic etc.
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : Amelia
Date : 28.06.05 10:07:00 AM
Have found some really good studies that I used for reference many times at college. If you can get hold of them they are well worth a read.
Study of crib biting and gastric inflammation and ulceration in young horses. CJ Nicol, HPD Davidson, PA Harris, AJ Waters, AD Wilson. Vet Rec (2002) 151, 658 - 662.
McGreevy P, Nicol CJ, Cripps P, Green L, French N (1995) Management factors associated with stereotypic and redirected behaviour in the thoroughbred horse. Eq Vet J 27: 86-91.
Nicol CJ (1999) Stereotypies and their relation to management. In Harris PA, Gomarsall G, Davidson HPB ,Green R (Eds), Proceedings of the BEVA Specialist Meeting on Nutrition and Behaviour. Newmarket: Equine Veterinary Journal Ltd, pp 11-14.
McBride, S.D. and Long, L. (2001). Management of horses showing stereotypic behaviour, owner perception and the implications for welfare. Vet. rec.148, 799-802.
Marsden, D. (2002). A new perspective on stereotypic behaviour problems in horses. In pract. 24(10), 558-569.
Goodwin, D., Davidson, H.P.B., and Harris, P. (2002). Foraging enrichment for stabled horses: effects on behaviour and selection. Equine Vet. J. 34(7), 686-691
Waters, A.J., Nicol, C.J., and French, N.P. (2002). Factors influencing the development of stereotypic and redirected behaviours in young horses: findings of a four year prospective epidemiological study. Equine Vet. J. 34(6), 572-579.
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From :
Date : 28.06.05 10:29:00 AM
66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:plOkJVhy9gYJ:www.ivis.org/advances/Behavior_Houpt/nicol/IVIS.pdf+waters+nicol+crib-biting&hl=en&start=1
vein.library.usyd.edu.au/links/Essays/2003/dampney.html
From :
Date : 27.06.05 7:50:00 PM
I know i sound stupid but can someone explain what cribbing is?
and would anyone not buy a horse because it cribs?
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : Jenny
Date : 27.06.05 7:57:00 PM
Not totally sure of the fine details, but crib biting is when the horse bites, usually a fence, and sucks air in. It can cause horses to get splinters in their throat, and it destroys fences, also others can catch the habit which is why cribbers tend to be cheaper It can be caused by boredom or the horse having stomach ulcers if it only cribs around meal times. I don't know of any horses who have stopped crib biting, but their must be a way.
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : Ellie
Date : 27.06.05 8:16:00 PM
i wouldnt get a crib biter but as jenny explained they usually suck on a fence.but oif it is the horse/pony of your dreams then get it and buy a crib coller it jusat goes round there neck and when they crib bite it hurts them or sumut so they eventually stop.it worked on a horse on my yard. it can also cause kolic if thats how you spell it?
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : Jenny
Date : 27.06.05 8:29:00 PM
I used to know a horse who wore a crib collar but it never worked, it's possible that people were worried about putting it on too tight as many people handled him (he was a star though, Spider) You can also buy tar-like paint which makes the fence taste nasty, like nail varnish for people who bite their nails!
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : Jenny
Date : 27.06.05 8:30:00 PM
I think colic starts with a 'c'
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From :
Date : 28.06.05 7:51:00 AM
Do a search on "crib" or windsucking and you'll have plenty of information about it.
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : CH
Date : 28.06.05 8:39:00 AM
Cribbing is not catching. I have a chronic cribber out of a total of 7 horses and none of them copy.
I would say that Josh has at some point developed stomach ulcers as a reaction to being stabled too long in the past. He has then basically become addicted to the endophin rush that cribbing gives him. He is a born worrier of a horse too which seems to go hand in hand.
Maximum turnout - pref 24 x 7 - antacids, a forage feed only, no sweeties (apples especially set him off), and a strip of electric tape to protect your best fences are the best ways to prevent cribbing. I would never stop him cribbing because its something he needs to do - and therefore he is allowed to do it in certain areas.
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : JS
Date : 28.06.05 8:55:00 AM
A cribber will destroy your fences and stable unless you take steps as above to stop them. However I know of fantastic horses who have been wonderful servants over the years and great performers who have also been cribbers, so the owners are happy to put up with what they do in their spare time!
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From :
Date : 28.06.05 9:12:00 AM
How do i know if my horse is doing it out of boredom or has a stomach ulcer??
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : CH
Date : 28.06.05 9:25:00 AM
Anon above, the only way to know for sure is to have a vet perform a laproscopy thingy I guess...
You could also look at the management side of things:
1. How long has he done it
2. Is it affecting his condition
3. What sparks off a bout of cribbing?
4. Does he do it in the field?
5. Before/after meal times religiously?
6. Whats his diet consist of?
I call my boy a cribber, but what he really is is a windsucker, in that he hooks his teeth onto a post and gulps down air - but he still wrecks fences with the force of pulling back against them.
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : Amelia (sunny&shanti)
Date : 28.06.05 9:45:00 AM
Crib-biting is a stereotypic behaviour - it is a repetitive behaviour that appears to have no visible desirable outcome. The horse grasps a fixed object with its teeth and draws back. A characteristic grunt is heard that people often mistake for air being sucked in, but actually its been found that this isn't the case and no air is actually sucked.
The two main theories that are viable are:
1 - Stress-coping. Stress causes acid build up - horse crib-bites- endorphins released and antacid in the saliva - causes horse to relax. the horse can then get fixed on this natural 'high' and it becomes a habit. This is backed up by research showing that high concentrate feed can cause gastric ulcers and the antacid in saliva soothes it. Could be a combination of stress and poor diet.
2. Frustrated motivation - horses are designed to live out 24/7 and are trickle feeders. When kept in and given only 2 feeds/day and limited hay the horse's natural lifestyle is compromised and can cause horse to crib-bite. This is linked very closely to above theory as diet also plays a big part.
It's probably a mix of both theories in most cases. The diet and stress theory is well supported because research has shown that many horses begin crib-biting at weaning time when they are stressed and have a sudden diet change from fat (of milk) and fibre (grass) to high protein (concentrates).
The behaviour can rarely be stopped once it is fixed. It is extremely detrimental to the welfare of the horse to try and prevent the horse from cribbing. It is best to allow the horse 24/7 turnout, very low concentrates and high fibre diet and a safe non-abrasive surface to crib-bite on.
Hope this helps (learnt this at Hartpury from one of the leading researchers)
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : CH
Date : 28.06.05 9:49:00 AM
Thats interesting - my horse defintiely sucks in air - you can hear it in his gut until he belches - then he stops cribbing...
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : Amelia
Date : 28.06.05 9:55:00 AM
Have a search for scientific journals that contain research into it not sure which ones don't require a login though. Think the air sucking thoery was disproved a long time ago, they claim that air comes in but goes out again and that's when you hear the grunt. Basically they just wanted to let people realise that the air does not go in and stay in as people were saying that this was related to colic etc.
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From : Amelia
Date : 28.06.05 10:07:00 AM
Have found some really good studies that I used for reference many times at college. If you can get hold of them they are well worth a read.
Study of crib biting and gastric inflammation and ulceration in young horses. CJ Nicol, HPD Davidson, PA Harris, AJ Waters, AD Wilson. Vet Rec (2002) 151, 658 - 662.
McGreevy P, Nicol CJ, Cripps P, Green L, French N (1995) Management factors associated with stereotypic and redirected behaviour in the thoroughbred horse. Eq Vet J 27: 86-91.
Nicol CJ (1999) Stereotypies and their relation to management. In Harris PA, Gomarsall G, Davidson HPB ,Green R (Eds), Proceedings of the BEVA Specialist Meeting on Nutrition and Behaviour. Newmarket: Equine Veterinary Journal Ltd, pp 11-14.
McBride, S.D. and Long, L. (2001). Management of horses showing stereotypic behaviour, owner perception and the implications for welfare. Vet. rec.148, 799-802.
Marsden, D. (2002). A new perspective on stereotypic behaviour problems in horses. In pract. 24(10), 558-569.
Goodwin, D., Davidson, H.P.B., and Harris, P. (2002). Foraging enrichment for stabled horses: effects on behaviour and selection. Equine Vet. J. 34(7), 686-691
Waters, A.J., Nicol, C.J., and French, N.P. (2002). Factors influencing the development of stereotypic and redirected behaviours in young horses: findings of a four year prospective epidemiological study. Equine Vet. J. 34(6), 572-579.
Subject : re:- What is cribbing??
From :
Date : 28.06.05 10:29:00 AM
66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:plOkJVhy9gYJ:www.ivis.org/advances/Behavior_Houpt/nicol/IVIS.pdf+waters+nicol+crib-biting&hl=en&start=1
vein.library.usyd.edu.au/links/Essays/2003/dampney.html