Post by Admin on Aug 4, 2005 15:33:56 GMT 1
Subject : Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 18.11.04 3:48:00 PM
Anyone?
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 18.11.04 4:08:00 PM
my mare was diagnosed 6 years ago, has caused no problems whatsoever since she came sound 6 months after diagnosis.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : Beth
Date : 18.11.04 4:26:00 PM
True navicular gets worse, most horses are typed with navicular syndrome, true navicular turns the navicular bones "lacey" on radiographs and usually affects the deep flexor tendon where the branch of this tendon meets the bone. So it boils down to whether horses do actually have navicular
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 18.11.04 4:26:00 PM
yes. if it IS navicular, it always gets worse over time.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 18.11.04 4:45:00 PM
so would that suggest my mare doesn't have it if no worse after 6 years?
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : DC
Date : 18.11.04 4:56:00 PM
Your mare has caudal heel pain, there are 50 + causes of pain in the rear 2/3 of the horses foot, unfortunately vets tend to bracket them all together under as "Navicular Syndrome" undestand the cause and navicular disease and syndrome are curable problems.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 18.11.04 5:05:00 PM
she did have x-rays etc. But if she is totally sound now and has been for 6 years, would that suggest that whatever caused the pain at the time is no longer a problem?
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : DC
Date : 18.11.04 5:15:00 PM
It is possible to have severe changes to the navicular bone, and have a totally sound horse, soft tissues heal when the environment is conducive. Shoes can mask symptoms of caudal heel pain, did she have any therapeutic shoeing? and what king of shoes does she have now?
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 18.11.04 5:16:00 PM
my little pony got diagnosed a couple of years ago and he goes through a time of being fine and then he gets really bad again and he's at the really bad stage the now. i can't help feeling so sorry for him. i'm definetly not going to give up on him now cause he's only about 10 and i've had him for about 6 years and i no he will get better again.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : Nicole
Date : 18.11.04 5:30:00 PM
He has raised heel rolled toe shoes, is on bute and cortaflex. the poor wee soul also
has arthritis. sorry for got to put my name before
Nicole
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : fao DC
Date : 18.11.04 5:34:00 PM
she had egg bar shoes for a while, about 4 years in fact, but we have now gone back to normal shoes. Have an excellent farrier tho who would do whatever best for her.
She also has mild arthritis, and has cortaflex for that.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 18.11.04 6:06:00 PM
Horse i look after was diagnosed with bad navicular and side bones about 3 years ago. Owner warned if she jumped him he'd be lame within a year. After course of navilox and some rest he's in full work still! No lameness at all. BUT..he is only worked on good ground. Only walked on roads and our school is perfect surface.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : Laura
Date : 18.11.04 10:48:00 PM
Many horses navicular problems have been sorted out by good barefoot trimming. Esp those who tackle bars like Strasser Method.
Have you given it any thought?
Would love to see pictures of you horse's hooves from sides and of washed sole.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : donna
Date : 18.11.04 11:07:00 PM
i have a 16.2hh idxtb and he was diagnosed with navicular 15months ago.my vet said to me that he could be on bute the rest of his life or have an opperation where he cut the nerves in his front feet so he cant feel the pain. i dont no what to do for the best now cause i am paranoid to ride him he gets light exercise 2 times a week, i went for the opperation and he is sound but i worry constantly about him i dont know what to do for the best he is only 11yrs and he loved to jump but hasnt since he was diagnosed, i would appreciate any advice?
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 19.11.04 1:53:00 PM
up
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 19.11.04 1:58:00 PM
Laura - thanks for the opinion, very happy with my farrier tho and her navicular problems have been sorted out by correct (not corrective any more) shoeing, so will not change what ain't broke! Sure if I posted pics they'd be ripped apart whatever so won't risk it! Don't mean by you obviously, just by the many nasty anons on here who get so vitriolic about barefoot.
Aforementionned mare's feet have a tendancy to crumble away even if she loses a shoe, so would take forever to acclimatise her to barefoot.
Happy as we are.
NB she was diagnosed with navicluar before my farrier started shoeing her - I had only had her a short while.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 19.11.04 2:05:00 PM
its because of the shoes her feet are crumbling!
i had one just the same and hes been arefoot 4 months now and improving every day and is now 100% sound on soft ground and much better than he was on stones etc but still hve long way to go but worth it!
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 19.11.04 2:10:00 PM
Look I'm not trying to be contentious here, but I came on this thread to see if anyone had any views on the opinion that my horse may not have the navicular she was diagnosed with years ago.
I have a superb farrier, and I am happy with my horses shod. Not saying it is right for every horse, everywhere, but I live in a very very flinty area, with no schooling facilities and both of my horses would not cope well with an enforced rest period due to unsoundness because of going barefoot. one because he is quite highly strung and would be unmanageable to ride after that long, and my maer because she has arthritis which is much better with regular (gentle) exercise
Please don't go on about going barefoot - it is not what I want to do.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : Laura
Date : 19.11.04 6:00:00 PM
Sorry, to hear that you are so against barefoot. Unfortunately it does seem to be made into such a big deal when it does not need to be and from my experience it is the only way to actually heal problems and unfortunately problems either heal or get worse no problems will actually stay static as the hoof is alive and ever growing.
I have seen so many condemned horses now living active lives again through going barefoot. Navicular problems are classically healed by going barefoot and so is poor horn quality.
I understand your concerns about terrain but there is a huge variety of hoof boots around. Many barefoot riders use them so they never need to stop riding through the transition.
In fact you will find one of the most important factors for changing to barefoot is lots of exercise so it can actually be fun too!
I will now not say anymore on the matter but I wish you and your horse well and I hope you find the route to recovery for your horse.
All the best.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 19.11.04 11:55:00 PM
up
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 19.11.04 11:55:00 PM
up
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 20.11.04 11:15:00 PM
Two extremely helpful books to read for the OP.
No Foot No Horse
Navicular Syndrome explained.
The situation can be suspended to stop it becoming worse and in some cases even improve, how
well the practice is down to good and I mean good farriery and that means a correct balance trim and if barefoot isnt possible and in all honesty it isnt for all no matter what some will say. But also with good corrective shoeing and that means coming away from traditional shoeing of a rim show with clips to either good well correctly applied NB or if possible Cytek shoeing.
Both when applied correct with a good farrier who fully understands the process can help the horse.
Cytek and NB both suffer with a lack of GOOD farriers to apply them right and balance the foot right.
So firstly read both of those books and then investigate yout own horses feet with good knowledge and then investigate a good farrier as they are the ones to hold the key to a horse and its future. Navicular is more often then not caused by incorrect balance and that is in the hands of a farrier. A few horses suffer conformation issues but they can still be eliviated.
Wedges are not an answer either as they only alter the pressure points from one area to another that will stress the foot structure another way. You help one area and cause a problem in another.
Its not the end of the world for you or your horse either.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : Maria
Date : 20.11.04 11:23:00 PM
My horse was cured from navicular in 4 weeks with Strasser-trimming. As was a friends horse that was due to be put down. All this was under the eye of the vet.
Above, you say tgis disease can be halted and even improve. I say it can be completely cured. I think KC has good success too. Better to try this than the drugs/shoeing/pain approach IMO
From :
Date : 18.11.04 3:48:00 PM
Anyone?
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 18.11.04 4:08:00 PM
my mare was diagnosed 6 years ago, has caused no problems whatsoever since she came sound 6 months after diagnosis.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : Beth
Date : 18.11.04 4:26:00 PM
True navicular gets worse, most horses are typed with navicular syndrome, true navicular turns the navicular bones "lacey" on radiographs and usually affects the deep flexor tendon where the branch of this tendon meets the bone. So it boils down to whether horses do actually have navicular
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 18.11.04 4:26:00 PM
yes. if it IS navicular, it always gets worse over time.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 18.11.04 4:45:00 PM
so would that suggest my mare doesn't have it if no worse after 6 years?
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : DC
Date : 18.11.04 4:56:00 PM
Your mare has caudal heel pain, there are 50 + causes of pain in the rear 2/3 of the horses foot, unfortunately vets tend to bracket them all together under as "Navicular Syndrome" undestand the cause and navicular disease and syndrome are curable problems.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 18.11.04 5:05:00 PM
she did have x-rays etc. But if she is totally sound now and has been for 6 years, would that suggest that whatever caused the pain at the time is no longer a problem?
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : DC
Date : 18.11.04 5:15:00 PM
It is possible to have severe changes to the navicular bone, and have a totally sound horse, soft tissues heal when the environment is conducive. Shoes can mask symptoms of caudal heel pain, did she have any therapeutic shoeing? and what king of shoes does she have now?
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 18.11.04 5:16:00 PM
my little pony got diagnosed a couple of years ago and he goes through a time of being fine and then he gets really bad again and he's at the really bad stage the now. i can't help feeling so sorry for him. i'm definetly not going to give up on him now cause he's only about 10 and i've had him for about 6 years and i no he will get better again.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : Nicole
Date : 18.11.04 5:30:00 PM
He has raised heel rolled toe shoes, is on bute and cortaflex. the poor wee soul also
has arthritis. sorry for got to put my name before
Nicole
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : fao DC
Date : 18.11.04 5:34:00 PM
she had egg bar shoes for a while, about 4 years in fact, but we have now gone back to normal shoes. Have an excellent farrier tho who would do whatever best for her.
She also has mild arthritis, and has cortaflex for that.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 18.11.04 6:06:00 PM
Horse i look after was diagnosed with bad navicular and side bones about 3 years ago. Owner warned if she jumped him he'd be lame within a year. After course of navilox and some rest he's in full work still! No lameness at all. BUT..he is only worked on good ground. Only walked on roads and our school is perfect surface.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : Laura
Date : 18.11.04 10:48:00 PM
Many horses navicular problems have been sorted out by good barefoot trimming. Esp those who tackle bars like Strasser Method.
Have you given it any thought?
Would love to see pictures of you horse's hooves from sides and of washed sole.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : donna
Date : 18.11.04 11:07:00 PM
i have a 16.2hh idxtb and he was diagnosed with navicular 15months ago.my vet said to me that he could be on bute the rest of his life or have an opperation where he cut the nerves in his front feet so he cant feel the pain. i dont no what to do for the best now cause i am paranoid to ride him he gets light exercise 2 times a week, i went for the opperation and he is sound but i worry constantly about him i dont know what to do for the best he is only 11yrs and he loved to jump but hasnt since he was diagnosed, i would appreciate any advice?
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 19.11.04 1:53:00 PM
up
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 19.11.04 1:58:00 PM
Laura - thanks for the opinion, very happy with my farrier tho and her navicular problems have been sorted out by correct (not corrective any more) shoeing, so will not change what ain't broke! Sure if I posted pics they'd be ripped apart whatever so won't risk it! Don't mean by you obviously, just by the many nasty anons on here who get so vitriolic about barefoot.
Aforementionned mare's feet have a tendancy to crumble away even if she loses a shoe, so would take forever to acclimatise her to barefoot.
Happy as we are.
NB she was diagnosed with navicluar before my farrier started shoeing her - I had only had her a short while.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 19.11.04 2:05:00 PM
its because of the shoes her feet are crumbling!
i had one just the same and hes been arefoot 4 months now and improving every day and is now 100% sound on soft ground and much better than he was on stones etc but still hve long way to go but worth it!
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 19.11.04 2:10:00 PM
Look I'm not trying to be contentious here, but I came on this thread to see if anyone had any views on the opinion that my horse may not have the navicular she was diagnosed with years ago.
I have a superb farrier, and I am happy with my horses shod. Not saying it is right for every horse, everywhere, but I live in a very very flinty area, with no schooling facilities and both of my horses would not cope well with an enforced rest period due to unsoundness because of going barefoot. one because he is quite highly strung and would be unmanageable to ride after that long, and my maer because she has arthritis which is much better with regular (gentle) exercise
Please don't go on about going barefoot - it is not what I want to do.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : Laura
Date : 19.11.04 6:00:00 PM
Sorry, to hear that you are so against barefoot. Unfortunately it does seem to be made into such a big deal when it does not need to be and from my experience it is the only way to actually heal problems and unfortunately problems either heal or get worse no problems will actually stay static as the hoof is alive and ever growing.
I have seen so many condemned horses now living active lives again through going barefoot. Navicular problems are classically healed by going barefoot and so is poor horn quality.
I understand your concerns about terrain but there is a huge variety of hoof boots around. Many barefoot riders use them so they never need to stop riding through the transition.
In fact you will find one of the most important factors for changing to barefoot is lots of exercise so it can actually be fun too!
I will now not say anymore on the matter but I wish you and your horse well and I hope you find the route to recovery for your horse.
All the best.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 19.11.04 11:55:00 PM
up
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 19.11.04 11:55:00 PM
up
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From :
Date : 20.11.04 11:15:00 PM
Two extremely helpful books to read for the OP.
No Foot No Horse
Navicular Syndrome explained.
The situation can be suspended to stop it becoming worse and in some cases even improve, how
well the practice is down to good and I mean good farriery and that means a correct balance trim and if barefoot isnt possible and in all honesty it isnt for all no matter what some will say. But also with good corrective shoeing and that means coming away from traditional shoeing of a rim show with clips to either good well correctly applied NB or if possible Cytek shoeing.
Both when applied correct with a good farrier who fully understands the process can help the horse.
Cytek and NB both suffer with a lack of GOOD farriers to apply them right and balance the foot right.
So firstly read both of those books and then investigate yout own horses feet with good knowledge and then investigate a good farrier as they are the ones to hold the key to a horse and its future. Navicular is more often then not caused by incorrect balance and that is in the hands of a farrier. A few horses suffer conformation issues but they can still be eliviated.
Wedges are not an answer either as they only alter the pressure points from one area to another that will stress the foot structure another way. You help one area and cause a problem in another.
Its not the end of the world for you or your horse either.
Subject : re:- Does Navicular get worse with time?
From : Maria
Date : 20.11.04 11:23:00 PM
My horse was cured from navicular in 4 weeks with Strasser-trimming. As was a friends horse that was due to be put down. All this was under the eye of the vet.
Above, you say tgis disease can be halted and even improve. I say it can be completely cured. I think KC has good success too. Better to try this than the drugs/shoeing/pain approach IMO
