Rig and False Rig/Dominant & aggressive Behaviour

[jackie]

Hi Hannah and a happy new year to you too.
My 32 yr old was diagnosed as a rig 30yrs ago and the only way to control him was a injection given every six months to control his Testosterone (Apparenty used on dogs and our vet said it had not been used on horses much and was trial and error, however there may be new treatmnet theses days).

However his behaviour apart from being dominent he was obsessed with the mares so much that he refused to leave a mare who was sectioned off in the field as she had Laminitis, he was so obsessed he wouldn,t leave her even to drink and got colic!.
He also had a fight with a Stallion over a fence.
'Sorry can,t be much help but good luck, and be patient, I am sure he will come good!

ps how old is he?

[HFM]

Thanks Jackie hes 15 this year. He has always been a 'dominant/pushy' sort of horse. Iv just always managed..until now when its just spiralled out of control for what seems to be no reason ?? (or not one i can find anyway!)

Have just found this

"Because aggression is a natural behavior certain parts of the brain – the hypothalamus, amygdala and frontal lobe of the cerebral cortex – are involved in the regulation of aggression. Any disease or condition that affects these areas has the potential to either increase or decrease aggression – although the latter is rarely of concern. Viral (rabies, eastern, western or Venezuelan encephalomyelitis), bacterial (Strep equi), protozoal or fungal diseases, tumors, cysts or abscesses can potentially, if rarely, cause increased aggression in horses. Thiamine deficiency, leukoencephalomalacia, lead or organophosphate pesticide poisoning might also be causes.

Probably the most common “condition” we tend to relate to aggression is testosterone. Horses with one or both testicles retained in the abdomen may be passed off to unsuspecting buyers as geldings. These rigs however usually display all the normal stallion behaviors, and will have serum testosterone levels similar to those of stallions with both testicles descended into the scrotal sack. Stallion-like conformation and behavior together with elevated testosterone is usually diagnostic of the condition, and the retained testicles should be removed. Because of the elevated temperature inside the abdomen these horses are normally sterile. If they have one descended testicle they will be fertile, but shouldn’t be bred as the condition is inherited. Retained testicles are also far more likely to develop cancerous tumors than descended ones.

Another condition in which elevated testosterone can lead to increased aggression is sexy gelding syndrome. This is sometimes seen in older geldings and it is thought to be caused by a tumor of the pituitary gland. This releases a hormone that stimulates production of steroid hormones, including testosterone, by the adrenal glands. Others signs of hyperadrenocorticism (Cushing’s disease) would be expected to accompany the behavioral changes, such as brittle coat, trouble shedding, a pot belly and sway back as well as increased eating, drinking and urination. The condition is treated with cyproheptadine.

Another hormonal cause of aggression in horses is hypothyroidism. The aggression can be directed at other horses, people or both. Thyroid hormone levels affect the levels of both dopamine and serotonin. These are neurotransmitters – substances that transmit nerve signals from nerve to nerve – that are particularly important in controlling behavior. It also affects the level of other hormones that normally are released in response to stress. Hypothyroid animals seem to live in a perpetual state of stress, and may respond to this with aggression. Replacing the missing hormone can completely control abnormal aggression in these horses."

last bit could be applicable i guess?

[horsey123]

have you had a vet out to look

[HFM]

no not yet horsey 123. Thought i would ask on here first to see if rig behaviour has to include an interest in mares. Also not sure if this could be a valid explanation anyway, as why would things suddenly get worse now? arrrrrrrrrrrr Think i will get the vet out to check his testosterone levels anyway....see if it points to any other conditions.

[jinglejoys]

Malaga was tested (Blood test,because he was a mule he had to have two tests in the same day) He was negative His problem was mainly frustrated and waiting for me to take over control

[ktk]

Get the vet to check bloods asap

My arab was that bad when I first took him on loan, life was a bit exciting and I learnt very quickly to leap out of stable windows We didn't have him checked over by a vet for the simple reason that we just didn't consider it and had the problem sorted fairly quickly, he has always been riggy when out with mares for the first time and can get possessive even now he is ancient.

Get the vet to check him over before he is sent off to Grants, my Copper honestly would have killed someone if he got the chance, regardless of how IH they were.

[natalia]

Well the first thing Iwould do is seperate him off from the mares, personally I don't like mixed turnout unless its in a much larger group for this reason. I would pal him up with a gelding and see if this works before sensing him away as when he returns home, however he is some where else, he's going to have the same problems.

[HFM]

jinglejoys, i think that may be our problems too.

thanks ktk and natalia. Whats been holding me back from getting him tested so far is that he shows NO interest in mares. Which is why i was wondering if high testosterone levels have to go hand in hand with 'riggy' behaviour.

Natalia your absolutely right about the problem representing itself when back at home. But because his problem seems to be nothing (or very little) to do with the mare...hopefully this wont be the case.

thanks again everyone

[hch4971]

My little gelding was incredibly aggressive with me, rearing, striking out and biting. I was terrified of him, if I went in the field he would herd me, biting my back until I could get to safety. Along came Saint Sarah Dent, he reared twice with her in the first 5 minutes of meeting (perhaps less), he has never reared since. She took him for 3 weeks and a totally different pony came back to the one that went away. I am sure that you will find these issues disappear whilst he is with Grant BUT you must make sure that you work with him and learn how to handle your boy in order that he doesnt just revert when he returns. I think his problems started with being cut late and covering Gypsy, he never stopped believing that he was in charge, we also had major seperation issues. He is now a lovely well mannered guy that knows his boundaries, more to the point, I now know how to show him and maintain his boundaries at all times. I wish you the best of luck with him as I know just how awful it is when you get to this stage. The fact that his behaviour has deteriated over a period of time looks as though it is learned behaviour that he has picked up and realised he can get away with - my guess is he is in for a shock!