HELP - KICKING OUT!!

[Cara & Jewel]

As some of you know i've just moved yards with Jewel. At the old yard she was bullied by the other mares in her field so we put her in with a 45 yr old pony who she got on fine with. When i first got her at Easter (2007) she was very stroppy, cow kicking and generally mareish - so we had RA Sue Brown out who did wonders with her and she settled really well and we developed a really nice bond. BUT - since we moved yards 5 weeks ago our relationship has gradually got worse. She is out with 3 geldings and although she isnt top of the pecking order she is not bullied and we can see that she has grown in confidence which i think is where the problems lie!

She is kicking out with her hind legs - mainly her off side when i do up or undo the leg strap on her turnout (although she did kick out when i did the girth up yesterday even though i'm always very gentle). Shes ok with me picking her feet out it just seems to be the leg strap business. I though it might be a ticklish problem but its never bothered her before and i'm not doing anything different.

I'm pretty sure the reason behind it is that she has more confidence and doesn't need me as much as when she was being bullied and shes just pushing the boundaries - but i'm not sure how to deal with it and want to get it sorted before she does kick me cos then my confidence will be crushed! One of the girls suggested picking one of her feet up, while someone else does up, or undos to strap, which we did try and it has worked

Any suggestions/advice welcome

[horsey123]

is she not is season my mare did this when she was

[Francis Burton]

For what it's worth, I don't think your mare's behaviour has anything to do with pecking order with other horses, let alone you. It sounds like learned behaviour that maybe started when she was irritated by the feel of the leg strap, rather than pushing boundaries. Picking a front foot up may help in the short term, as a distraction and discouragement, but she may still be able to kick out, so be careful! If she finds your fiddling with leg straps annoying, I wouldn't start shouting at her or pushing her around e.g. to pretend you are dominant (not that I'm saying you would), or you might end up annoying her more. It is possible to punish this kind of behaviour, but attempting to do so is so fraught with danger and potential to make things worse that I wouldn't recommend it. And if it's the leg strap that is bothering her, punishment doesn't seem very fair. Instead, I would try to make putting on her turnout as small a deal as possible, be patient with her, and reward good behaviour. Also, it might be worth double checking her back legs for anything, e.g. rain rash, which might be irritating her.

[Kim with Rio]

Hi Cara

IMHO sounds like the yard move plus turnout with the 'boys' has set her hormones on fire, she's had to re-define her 'place' in a new herd, and I think you are right in that she is pushing her boundaries with you.

Yard moves can be really quite unsettling for horses (I've done enough of them!). She probably feels insecure now she has moved yards, but it may be the hormones that are triggering the behaviour as she is turned out with geldings and may be this is a new thing for her? My mare comes into season all year round and can be quite opinionated! Either way, the cow kicking is not acceptable behaviour when handling and as Sue has helped you before, can you contact her and discuss again?

Can you try using fillet strings on your rugs instead, or use the current leg straps as fillet strings? It may help to keep you safe whilst you go to Plan B.

Things may well settle, once your ned has in turn settled down into her new yard and her new friends, routines.

Hope this helps.

K

[Cheryl Walmsley]

Sherb did this a few weeks ago. I checked his legs and what not and couldn't see anything irritating him, so I took the leg straps of for a week. By the time I put them back on he had forgotten about it and stopped doing it. I think he just sometimes tries to put people off messing with him. Because it was my OH he first did this to and he jumped back, he just couldn't help himself after that. After a week without the leg straps the habit had been broken.

[Cara & Jewel]

horsey123 said:

is she not is season my mare did this when she was

Hi Horsey, no she's not in season. She did when she first went in with the boys, but after a few days she settled down

Francis - I think what you are saying is very right! The first time she did it, I did tell her off, and even though she stopped doing it, I could tell that she was annoyed! I hate telling her off, and I try not to make a big deal out of it, because she will get very irritated if you faff around and take ages to do it. Thanks for the advice, it is very much appreciated

Kim - I think the idea about turning the leg straps into a fillet string is a very good idea! I think now that she has some firends, and isn't being bullied, her confidence has soared, and now she is getting a bit cocky!!

Sherb - *Phew* i'm glad it's not just me I think I will try the fillet string and see if that works, thank you ;D

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it ;D ;D

[lolamae]

I agree with those who said remove the leg straps. Take away one possible cause and see if the behaviour continues. then go from there if you have to, there are no prickly worn bits irritating her are there? Like those annoying labels you get in clothing sometimes.

I am anti leg straps anyway I'm afraid,I've seen some horrid injuries caused by them one way or another and I have yet to see a horse with his leg stuck in a fillet string. All mine get taken off and one used as a fillet string, I have lots of spares. If a rug is cut well enough in the first place, it will stay put with just a fillet string.

I had a Boarder in who was a complete brat to adjust his rug, he'd stamp and faff about. the owner just "there, thered" him and the horse got brattier.

I can't be doing with that, my horses are expected to stand still when they are told, where they are told, in the field, with no halter either, so he went back to school. I don't know who got bored first, him or me, but after an hour of the rug going on and off, on and off, he's as good as gold now.

[butterfly]

I could tell that she was annoyed! I hate telling her off

You dont need to tell her off ... you just need to make sure she understands it is unacceptable to do certain things when you are around. (providing you are sure it is not pain related)

I suspect this is a dominance issue and all she is doing is playing games with you. By looking annoyed when you 'tell her off' she is just going to the next level to see when you will back off.

Think of crafty ways round this without getting cross with her. By being crafty and firm with her she will respect you alot. It would be good to get over this one so she can move onto the next game.

She is there to build your confidence not to crush it so dont worry.

She sounds pretty intelligant to me ... you should learn alot from her!!!

[Ryan&Dizzy]

im really glad you put this up because i was going to put a simalar one up as my neddie almost took my head off tonight! he s a stressy little man and has issues with people round his back legs, he finds it hard to pick his back feet up due to his bad back however he has thrush so i need to pick his feet out and faff with him. i do think it is genuin fear and discomfort with him but he will kick out with his hind legs when asked to pick them up... he seemed to be improving i had just been being patient and asking him to give me his feet rather than forcably picking them up then letting him findwhere is comforatable to hold them then praising him lots when it was done. but tonight i really thought he was gonna get my head...

[yatva]

My mare only once kicked out at me when I put her rug on and was bending to do up the belly straps, I promptly elbowed her in the ribs and said no in a very firm voice. She has never done it again - it was within the first few weeks of me getting her and I think she was just testing the boundaries. She does however kick up at her belly very often when I am unsaddling, but I think this is either at imaginary flies (sometimes real ones) and the sensation of the girth loosening. I have never reprimanded her for this as they are not true cow kicks and I don't think they are actually aimed at me, but I keep a wary eye out for that leg when I am unsaddling !