lou23
Intermediate Poster
Posts: 114
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Post by lou23 on Dec 4, 2006 12:35:06 GMT 1
Hi Rusheen,
I can't offer advice but only tell you about a pony at our yard. He arrived the sweetest, well mannered pony you could ask for. The girl who owns him is loud and irritating and treats him like a machine and he has still been perfect in everyway until the end of the summer, he had an ill fitting saddle which didn't help matters but he has had some sort of virus (no clinical signs) except dropped muscle and weight and he turned into the pony from hell, he would bite, kick and threaten anyone who went near him. He has also had blood tests and shown up that he is anemic and also had a course of antibiotics. He's now put on weight and his back is healing slowly, but he still has a nasty side to him and we all believe he doesn't like the girl who owns him. My freinds daughter and mine have both ridden him and groomed and looked after him and they have both never had a problem with him. What i'm trying to say is that possibly this girl upsets your pony in some way or another. My horse never liked kids outside her stable and we put that down to them having high pitched voices.
I personally would handle him for a while myself and if you have kids around then i would muzzle him just to be on the safe side and then after a break from the kids, slowly introduce them to him by starting with a child you can trust and won't show any signs of fear.
Good luck with him and i hope he gets better soon and let us know how you're getting on with him
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Post by smudge on Dec 4, 2006 12:51:37 GMT 1
Its an interesting theory... Rather reminds me of the story of the German Shepherd family dog who was put down for biting a child. When they did the autopsy to see if anything had triggered such out of character behaviour they found the end of a pencil wedged deeply into his ear. The kids had been "playing" with the dog and stuck the pencil down. Must have been agony for the dog who subsequently lost his life Re riding schools - well, it depends on your own perspective of what is acceptable and what isn't. I've been to the one that Megnum talks about above and my opinion is different from hers
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sorne
Elementary Poster
Posts: 84
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Post by sorne on Dec 4, 2006 16:42:39 GMT 1
What's weird is that the same small child (who adores all our ponies) was also bitten by another pony earlier in the day. Do my ponies think that she is good enough to eat? You have mentioned several times that this child adores the ponies, but maybe they don't adore her. Two ponies have been biting the same child. Perhaps the child needs to learn more about using her body language to communicate with the ponies. If it was an adult having this problem with a horse, ground work exercises and maybe join-up would be recommended so that the horse understood who was the leader. Even more important for a dominant horse to learn that he is *not* top sheep. Another thought - has the child been feeding the ponies treats? That might explain biting the hand.
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anon
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 1,014
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Post by anon on Dec 5, 2006 6:49:43 GMT 1
As previous poster - but also - many ponies need some serious amount of work otherwise they get up to naughtiness
Once physical issues have been checked out - try working this pony for minimum 2 pref 4 hours a day - make the work varied, and hard WORK FOR HIM, NOT JUST WALKING AROUND WITH SMALL CHILDREN RIDING HIM. yOU MAY FIND A TOTALLY REFORMED CHARACTER!
What do you feed him? I'd also take him totally sugar , molasses and cereal-free - give the pony a chnace of becoming well-behaved
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yarrow
Novice Poster
Posts: 26
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Post by yarrow on Dec 8, 2006 22:46:51 GMT 1
Hi Rusheen,
I can understand that you feel a little defensive, some of the replies seem to have wandered a little, sorry guys! Your main issues as I see them are the safety of the children that come to you and the continued use of this pony. Is he generally ok with other children and in other circumstances? How would you feel about getting an alternative therapist out to him. I think that the RA's have a very important job to do and I've seen a good many results of their work, however their are other options as well. I'm an Equine Reiki Master so of course that's one route I'd recommend, but whichever route you choose, I think you need an expert, independant opinion. Any expert would come to help you, not criticise you or your yard. Don't go it alone, for your sake or that of the pony. Up until recently, I had an adorable little pony who suddenly decided, one day, to kick ten bells out of me every time he saw me. Finally, I realised it was largely due to a change in his diet. Could this be the case? Has something changed suddenly in his life? If an answer isn't immediately obvious, then look from another angle! Good luck.
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jackie
Olympic Poster
Olympic Poster
My Dream, My Passion, My life
Posts: 691
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Post by jackie on Dec 12, 2006 21:56:44 GMT 1
Been away for a while but have just read your thread with interest!!!!. The only thing I would like to add is we had a similar problem few years ago at a rs I worked out and after many vet. Osteopath and dentist visits, not forgetting changing all the tack etc we finally decided to turn the pony away for 8 months rest and "Hey Presto" she came back into work a new pony. She just need time off. RS are a very mundane routine for the ponies and I think they should all be given time out, every so often so if all fails please consider giving this pony a good holiday. Good Luck
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karenandco
Advanced Poster
Advanced Poster
there is never a quick fix,
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Post by karenandco on Dec 20, 2006 17:42:04 GMT 1
hi ppl,
been away for quite a while and have read this with interest, and i will appoligise for this long post, before i start,
about 3 yrs ago i had a tb at a private yard a friend of mine had her cob there also, tod had been sent away for re-schooling as he was being (for want of a better discription) very cobby, and the friend couldn't really do anything with him, being very strong, not listening, to name just a few of the not so nice parts of his nature, anyway because he was on his own it was decieded that he would go in with my tb, who was very calm, loveing in nature, not at all tb, well i went to the yard with my children, one of which went into the paddock before i had got there, ( i must add here that both the horses and children knew each other very well prior to this happening) tod (the cob) went up to my daughter and was getting his usual pat/stroke, then it began, he wouldn't let my daughter pass, taking side steps to ensure she couldn't get round him, after what seemed ages, but in fact was only minutes, she got past his head, he then knocked her to the ground with his hind quarters, turned and stamped over her, until he saw me coming,( by which time i am hurdling fences, and running for all i am worth) he then took off, and i have seen to my daughter followed by a rather cross phone call to the friend, while i'm chassing this cob round and round my tb who is standing like a round about in the middle,
to cut a really long story short, he was sent back to live on his own for a while, and i then worked with him everyday, the re-schooling was a total waste of time, and what he in fact needed was love and time and attention, i have now bought him and although him and me have a small communication problem when i ride him out he is an angel on the ground, and i have never had this problem since, although i do gaurd against it, such as the children never go in the paddock with out me, and as soon as i see behaviour out of the ordinary i'm on it,
but i just wanted you to see, that it could just be he wanted attention and because she walked past him it upset him
just a thought,
karen and co
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madmare1
Grand Prix Poster
The Gruesome Twosome
Posts: 1,500
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Post by madmare1 on Dec 20, 2006 18:09:38 GMT 1
Rusheen...this may sound like a daft question, but the sheep..were they male or female? if they were male..then it would explain a lot, as he is just reacting to a situation the only way he knows how to. he will have adopted the ways, and be extremely sensitive to the breeding cycle of sheep...I know it sounds weird, but honestly..it has happened! In which case, if you have sheep on your place, or nearby, and the tup has gone out with the ewes..then it is possible he is picking up on it.
the only other explanation could be that he has got used to getting titbits, and got impatient...put up a NO TITBITS sign on the yard..or "caution, this pony may bite" on his stable door..make sure everyone is aware of it. and try to avoid the situation arising.
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Post by janetgeorge on Dec 20, 2006 19:48:56 GMT 1
Also I have had experience of a lady who bought a horse and kept it at livery. She adored it, but the horse HATED her with a passion--- anyone else could ride or handle it, but it would attack her-----it was really sad. Yep - it happens. Some people just don't mix with (some) horses (or dogs.) I had a Springer who'd been ill-treated by his previous owner but was a great little dog - a bit nervous - but not aggressive. UNTIL he met my brother-in-law, a perfectly nice chap who did NOTHING to upset him except that he was a very similar 'type' to the dog's original owner. Dog attacked B-i-L - very embarrassing. I didn't imemdiately twig WHY - until I thought about it but both former owner and B-i-L were very active in their body movements. I also had a horse some years ago who was then at livery. This was odd horse who'd had a lot of behavioural issues when I got him - but they had been resolved. But he constantly attacked one livery client over the stable door - she was a perfectly nice person who'd never had anything to do with him other than walking past his stable. Turns out she was a vegan - and I am sure there was a slight difference in her body odour - undetectable to the human nose - that the horse picked up on. Horses can be very sensitive to smell. Interestingly, she didn't get on with dogs either. Sounds like this child MAY have in some way been the reason for the pony's behaviour. Whether she'd been teasing him, whether she'd been extra NICE to him and feeding him titbits Obviously the pony (and child) need close monitoring. I would wonder if upping the pony's work might help.
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Post by fin on Dec 21, 2006 0:17:01 GMT 1
Turns out she was a vegan - and I am sure there was a slight difference in her body odour - undetectable to the human nose - that the horse picked up on. Horses can be very sensitive to smell. Interestingly, she didn't get on with dogs either.Now, that's really interesting. I'm a vegan. Now, I can SMELL people who eat a lot of dairy produce (sorry guys, you might not notice it but it is a pretty nasty sour smell). Now I can see why a dog might go for a vegan (herbivore, lower down the food chain etc) but a horse? I'm not contradicting you here you understand, I'm just wondering why. I was talking to a girl a while back whose OH was a vegan, and her horse found him very interesting, and wanted to sniff his breath a lot. My horse doesn't bother, but my pony does--she's perpetually checking to see what I've been eating! I wonder what they make of vegans--I mean, we look and act like carnivores, but smell like herbivores. That must be pretty confusing. I've never been attacked (well, apart from H, but she has a go at everybody just to find out of she's in charge yet ) but then again I probably don't give out bottom-of-the food chain vibes I wonder if we should start a thread about this?
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Post by blackarab on Dec 21, 2006 1:52:42 GMT 1
I know of a similar case. A friend of mine who is a long time breeder, was in the field with her mares. One mare came up to her and for no apparent reason gave her both barrels, and proceeded to trample her when she was on the floor. This was totally out of character for the mare, who she's bred. She went to the doctor a few days later, badly bruised, but in increasing pain in her lower back. Doctor diagnosed cancer of the kidney, which was removed shortly thereafter. It turns out the mare saved my friends life indirectly.
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Post by janetgeorge on Dec 21, 2006 2:00:59 GMT 1
Now, that's really interesting. I'm a vegan. Now, I can SMELL people who eat a lot of dairy produce (sorry guys, you might not notice it but it is a pretty nasty sour smell). Now I can see why a dog might go for a vegan (herbivore, lower down the food chain etc) but a horse? I'm not contradicting you here you understand, I'm just wondering why. Ah - because this horse started off with 'issues' including attacking people over the stable door. I'll no doubt get shot down again but I taught him not to do it in NO uncertain terms (although he was smart enough I only had to do it once.) I eat a lot of meat - I no doubt smell like a carnivore. He recognised that carnivores bit back. So he didn't attack carnivores. Vegans - on the other hand - were 'safe'. He was a VERY smart (and very complex) horse.
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Post by spanishmustangsuk on Dec 21, 2006 8:06:33 GMT 1
If you are out and about and watch people with their horses, it is amazing what people will put up with. You see people being dragged all over the place by their horses, barged into, walking off when the rider mounts,... and that is just to name a few. Luckily there are sites like this where people can seek advice nowadays. We might think of a horse or a pony as having some foibles and just smile benignly and let it carry on. The horse doesn't know any better and does just that, and gradually the little foible turns into a dangerous habit. This is my advice: This little pony does need to be taken back to groundwork basics I think, and by all means involve the kids. Work it in the roundpen, if you have one. Teach the pony to yield to pressure from the hands, or the rope. Teach it to respect your's and the child's space in a kind way that he will understand. ie. Pressure and immediate release for the slightest try. Send it away and bring it back on your terms. Teach the kids never to handfeed treats, but use a bucket, or put it on the floor. Never let them have treats in their pockets. The ponies mustn't associate people's hands or pockets, especially kids' with treats. Teach the kids to push the horse's/pony's heads away when they get too close. The ponies should all learn to respect a human's space, whether they are misbehaving now or not. Something might trigger them not to in the future and then they don't know any better. I know it is difficult when dealing with kids who get all gushy and want to hug and kiss ponies, but even a pony can become a danger to any human, not just a child, if it doesn't know the boundaries. By all means let them do it if you see the pony doesn't object. Some ponies may see it as a threat to have their space invaded like that. As a riding school your first priority always has to be the safety of the kids, and generally ponies and horses are all great with kids, but some have to be taught what is acceptable behaviour and what isn't. Maybe this pony has done you a great favour in the sense that it has made you question things, and look for a better way of dealing with his problems, and possibly help you see other things in the making and thus nipping future disasters in the bud. I think it is great what you are doing! Without riding schools like yours a lot of kids would never experience how great it is to be in the company of a horse/pony and learn to ride. I'd be happy to help if I can. You can pm me.
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Post by fin on Dec 21, 2006 11:19:24 GMT 1
Now, that's really interesting. I'm a vegan. Now, I can SMELL people who eat a lot of dairy produce (sorry guys, you might not notice it but it is a pretty nasty sour smell). Now I can see why a dog might go for a vegan (herbivore, lower down the food chain etc) but a horse? I'm not contradicting you here you understand, I'm just wondering why. Ah - because this horse started off with 'issues' including attacking people over the stable door. I'll no doubt get shot down again but I taught him not to do it in NO uncertain terms (although he was smart enough I only had to do it once.) I eat a lot of meat - I no doubt smell like a carnivore. He recognised that carnivores bit back. So he didn't attack carnivores. Vegans - on the other hand - were 'safe'. He was a VERY smart (and very complex) horse. THat sounds pretty plausible. Given the lack of predators in the UK I used to wonder if a horse really could recognise the smell of a possible predator, since I'd have thought it was learned rather than inherent. However my own horse--who is afraid of NOTHING--always shies at the drains and manhole covers in the lower part of the village. I thought this was a bit odd until I realised he was also shying at the butcher's shop further up the street--which was presumably washing blood and whatever into the drains....so he KNEW that being in that shop was bad news, regardless of whether he'd ever been taught by his mom. If I knew any meat-eaters it would be interesting to see how he reacted to them, but practically everybody I know seems to be at least vegetarian!!!!
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xxx
Novice Poster
Posts: 0
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Post by xxx on Dec 21, 2006 17:00:52 GMT 1
I had a pony who charged at certain people in the field, TBH it was only becaus eI worked with him and rode himn every day that I could get near him. We had him two years, he was lot better by the end of it, but still you did NOT go near his door, or wave your hands in his face if you wanted to keep them! I just ignored his behaviour, but with others he seemed to know. He did particularly hate my sister, but she had poked him in the early days (i.e. pony that bites, lets tease it?) and he never forgave her, she had tobe careful in the field although he never got her. For your pony Rusheen I would be removing it from the RS as if it happens again, you would be liable I think.
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