Autoiographies and the truth

[natural]

How much do you think it is acceptable to use "poetic licence" in an autobiography?
I have just read Pat Parelli's and was very disappointed to read the chapter about Magic, which kind of insinuated that Pat, by riding her a couple of times a year, basically brought about great improvements. How could he not mention that he left the horse with Philip Nye who worked so hard to bring her to a peak of training, then picked up the results for himself?
I also read the Horse Whispers and Lies book on-line (my poor eyes!) and realised that quite a lot of Monty's books are not quite accurate. He couldn't have studied the wild horses when he said he did, his school attendance records tell a different story. The photo of his dad with a horse laid down was not a classic picture of training a horse with dominance, but as explained in the book it was taken from, it was showing a safe and kind way to secure a horse that needed emergency help or maybe gelding, in the days when vets with drugs weren't easily available. The complete rodeo records show that he did have some wins in his childhood, but certainly wasn't the prodigy that he claims, and nobody around at the time rembers some famous kid in a railway carriage.
I don't think any of this detracts from the obvious facts that these people are amazing horsemen, but why oh why couldn't they be honest?
It makes me wonder about some of the other books I love to read, like the Mark Rashid ones for example. I wonder how much truth and how much fiction do we really get?

[bridge]

I can't answer your question, but I can say that:

* One persons perception of a situation can be very different from anothers.

* One person's memory of a certain situation can be very different from anothers.

* What may have seemed like a huge achievment to one person may seem like a small achievement to others.

If my sister and I both wrote a book about our childhood, I'm sure our books would be very different and we would give different accounts of the same situation. Anyone in our family reading them might think "That's not how it was".

Therefore, I think I would make allowances for small 'discrepancies' or 'lapses of memory' and just enjoy the books.

[natural]

These aren't really just small lapses though are they Bridge? I mean, I believe Magic was with Philip Nye for 3 years. If the school attendance records are accurate, and why wouldn't they be, then Monty didn't go and study the wild horses as a youngster. I thought that was how he developed Join Up? It's a bit fundamental.
Don't take this as a knock Monty thread please everyone. It is just a discussion point. I and many 1,000's of people are grateful to Monty, even if he didn't really invent Join Up, but it's simply his own version of Hook Up as used by his dad and many western horsemen. It's the fact that he brought it to my attention that matters to me.

[kas]

My friend brought the Parelli autobiography with her when she came to visit on Monday. I had a quick flip through, read the Magic chapter and then was so cross couldn't be bothered to read the rest. Maybe I'm cutting off my nose to spite my face, and letting the fact that I know Philip influence me too much. It wasn't so much a lie, just a huge omission and the way it was written kind of implied that the changes in Magic were down to Pat. Cutting out 3 years of Magic's life that were critical to her development seems hardly right in a chapter that is supposed to be about her, so it is rather too far from the truth for my liking.
To me it's about integrity. For sure if you're writing your life story you might trim some bits to avoid offending people or incriminating them (I might not have much to write come to think about it...!). Also you might give a shorthand version of the real events as they might be too involved for the reader. I think that if you can't write the real story for some reason then you should leave it out rather than giving a completely false impression.
I still respect Pat as a horseman, but this sort of confirms that I probably don't have a lot of time for him as a person, if that makes sense.
I've read all of Horse Whispers and Lies. Don't think I should comment on it in detail here, but I think it's a shame an old boy like Monty should be so estranged from his family. He's probably not that bothered though.

[bridge]

I read Monty's book years ago and can't honestly remember what he said about learning from the wild herd (as in the time scale etc) and I haven't read Pat's book at all, so I guess I can't comment further until I have.

Guess I'm off to the book shop tonight. lol

[kas]

This is what it says on Monty's website -
"Monty first learned to listen to horses while observing wild mustangs in Nevada at the age of thirteen. Sent there to round up horses for the Salinas Rodeo Association’s Wild Horse Race, he spent hours silently watching the feral horses interact with each other. Soon he realized that they used a discernable, effective and predictable body language to communicate, set boundaries, show fear and express annoyance, relaxation or affection. In a moment that would change his life and the lives of horses and people forever, Roberts understood that utilizing this silent language would allow training to commence in a much more effective and humane manner, encouraging true partnership between horses and humans. Later, he would name this moment of partnership “Join~Up,” and it would become the foundation of all his work with horses and people."
I've got vids of Phil Nye and Magic 1999 and her progress report in 2001 when he was putting her on the ship to go to Pat. Riding bareback and in a rope halter in a park... sob! Very emotional stuff

[kas]

I meant to say piaffe in a rope halter and bareback in a park...

[Ann NF]

Surely Monty would have had many weeks of school vacations, like any other teenager, to be free to do his mustang observations and to learn from working with horses? If he lived on a ranch, wouldn`t this all have been part of everday life, whatever his school commitments were?

[kas not logged]

I don't really worry too much if Monty was telling the truth, personally I sort of doubt it, but I'm really only concerned with his skills as a horseman, as I am with Pat P.
Monty didn't live on a ranch though Ann, his parents had a riding school at the rodeo grounds in Salinas.
The story is that, at the age of 13, Monty was given the responsibility for collecting the wild horses that would be used at that year's rodeo.
Having read all the books I'm a little sceptical about some of Monty's stories, but he's a great trainer who opened a whole new world up to many horse people

[karen]

It' just poetic licence and is used in all walks of life, probably even your own at some point (that small spread ypu got your horse over once probably adds inches to itself every year you tell the story etc...) have any of you seen the film big fish? great example for exagerating things- what is more interesting the truth or a little romanticised version....?! sureley if it means hundreds of people are encouraged into spending more and more time paying attention to their animals then where's the harm.

[natural]

I've had a think about it and have decided that for me there is a difference between a little embroidery for the sake of the story and out and out lies. You can lie by ommission and maybe Pat P is doing this, but at least he's not actually knowingly altering facts for his own benefit, but I do think it is misleading and wrong. I think that it is wrong to actually out and out lie about your experience, alter events in your life or the lives of other people etc. I have no idea if Monty did or did not go study wild horses in the desert but if he didn't then to me that would be a huge and unacceptable lie under any circumstances because he says that is how he developed his whole system. A bit like finding out that Mark Rashids Old Man never existed I suppose (go on then now tell me that he made him up and shatter even more of my illusions!!!!).