new problem - reluctance to be alone

[nimrod]

since my mare moved to grass livery and moved in with another mare she has been a nightmare to have on her own. I have had her since she was unbroken and always made a point of hacking out alone.

previously she was stabled at nights, but her legs fill really badly and she was stiff so she is now out. she is in a herd. the yard wasn't working out, so i just moved to another yard. she was fine for the first week or so, but when her previous field companion moved in too she is a nightmare, if i bring her in on her own she freaks in the stable kicking on the door, if i hack her out alone some days she is fine but other days she gets just past the field then rears and naps (not helped by this mare galloping arounf and neighing.) the thing is when in the field she doesn't even pay any attention to the mare and herds off the other horses down the field (all mares).

i don't know how to control the situation, i dont get off and never let her win, but her rearing is becoming dangerous, if she is in one of her insecure moods i have to cut short what I'm doing and turn her out. short of keeping her in 24/7 for a week i don't know what else to do. i don't want to hack out with another horse which would solve the problem, but would also mean i'll never get her to hack out alone again.

i've just put her on steady up and cut her feed right down (alfa-a, unmollased sugar beet. a handful of high fibre nuts and blue chip, oh and oil. one feed a day, hay at night if necessary). she is a 16.2hh irish sports horse (although 99% TB).

what else can i do? i walked her out in hand yesterday and she did exactly the same thing (to which she got a sharp smack on the neck with a lead rope which helped till we were far enough away for her to give up. (i don't condone hitting them, but her behaviour was dangerous, i don't even carry a whip or ride in a martigale or anything). she is also starting to act up in the school now too and tries to drag me sideways down the road to the field.

sorry to ramble on, but i am getting to the stage where i don't want to ride as it is more hassle than its worth.

[annahindley]

Sounds horrible. Poor you. Have you tried working her around the problem area in long reins. I always prefer to work from the ground, and in long reins you have control from a safe distance away. I find it much safer than riding, esp if horse is threatening to rear...or perhaps you could bring the other mare in?

[scaredycat]

Hi nimrod, I totally sympathise with you. My boy has got seperation anxiety and will nap like crazy when ridden out on his own - so bad some days we can't even get out of the yard. I have recently moved him to a yard where he's out 24/7 with mainly geldings and he's calmed down a little - but still naps.

Is it possible for you to have her in a field with more than one horse? It sounds like she's really bonded with this other mare, and coupled with her feeling a bit insecure in a brand new home.

I thought the same, hacking out in company will mean that I'll never be able to hack out alone. What I'm trying to do with him is hack out with one other steady horse and make my boy lead. But I'm at a loss as to the next step so I've enlisted the help of Adam Goodfellow to come and assess the situation and try and help me out.

Good luck, I'll let you know what Adam says, it may help you too.

[nimrod]

yes, she is in a herd, although only day time. at night it is just her and the one mare. i can't bring the mare out as she has severe separation anxiety, so i can't leave her stabled while I ride. if my horse comes out the field (even if others are in the field) the other mare goes mad. its almost as if my mare is learning this behaviour from her.

[scaredycat]

It sounds so much like the place where I used to keep my boy. He was out with two other mares. One was quite laid back and kept herself to herself. The other mare was a complete stresshead and would work herself up into such a state when one of the other horses left her. She was like it on hacks as well if one of the other horses left her.

I do certainly think that they learn or copy this type of behaviour from each other. Maybe she's feeling uncertain and this other mare's behaviour is worrying her - she may be 'thinking' "something must be wrong as my field mate is reacting like this. I should get back to the herd".

I'm not sure what else to suggest at the moment. Let me have a think and see what else I can come up with.

[nimrod]

has anyone else had this problem?

[holi]

It's so strange as our horse only got this anxiety with one other horse (ufortunately it was when he lived at home with our old pony). He's now back in livery and fine to be left out alone. I know that's of no use but it appears that it might be this one horse that she has the problem with.

[gingerloon]

hi out of interest how old is your horse? I've got a mare who is rising 4 and I've worked rewally hard to keep her independent, just wondering if I'm going to hit the same problems.

I have to say though, when my mare does nap, which at the moment I am putting down to babyness and lack of confidence, I sit quietly, turn her back the way I want to go and encourage her forward. We will stay there for ages until she goes forward if it takes it, I don't want her to learn that she can get out of doing things by refusing to go forward.

I am also in the situation where I need to get her used to roads and traffic but at teh same time I don't want her to get dependent on other horses as we have so far mainly hacked out for short rides round the farm on our own. She has ridden out with another horse and she was fine, and was happy to hack out on her own the next time. It's really difficult to know what to do for the best with them .

[nimrod]

my mare is 8 now, she was backed at 4.5. problem is, i can't make her face the direction i want to go!! she spins round and throws herself around. if i try and make her go forwards she takes the sideways option, it is quite hair raising I have to say. i had some insecurity issues as a youngster when she was hacking out, but she would just freeze and given time would walk on again, now her strops seem to be getting more tense and violent, and i worry at some stage she'll end up falling over.

if it is jsut this one mare then i don't know what to do, moving yards again not an option, and the way the fields are split up i can't put mine in another field. i did manage to take my mare out the field the other day without this mare noticing and that day she hacked out fine. problem is the route off the yard runs right down the side of their field, so i can't sneak out a back way!!

the only thing would be to bring my mare in at night, but then i get the stiffness problems again and the other owner will have the problem of her horse not being able to stay out on her own at night. what a nightmare

[Cathy248]

Can you have both mares out at night but only in neighbouring fields so they can't get too attached to each other? I would guess by the sounds of things that until the other horse calms down you're likely to continue struggling with yours. Could you try schooling her on her own and hacking occasionally with another horse to keep yours calm, then progress to having someone walking on foot with you.

Have you tried hacking her just a very short distance and coming back before she starts to nap, or is her napping right from the moment you try and leave?

Have you tried leading her out, or hopping off and leading her when she starts to nap?

If she won't turn around and face the way you want to go will she stand calmly or does she try and rush back to the yard? If she will stand calmly then praise her, let her have a look and think and ask her to take just one or two steps toward turning around - if she does stop her and give her lots of praise. If she risists the ask more firmly and if she trys to head for home stop her and make her wait again. Make sure everytime she does something toward what you are after she gets lots of reward and eventually you should get there!

[nimrod]

nope, won't stand still and i don't like to use too much resistance with my hands as then she half rears while pirouetting at the same time, the best i can manage is lots of circles and inside leg, sometimes she gives in, but more recently she really means it. the alternative is to stick on a martingale and a stick as she does seem to respond to a tap on the shoulder, but i am reluctant to smack her if she is genuinely freaked out. its pretty much the same places she does it - when she is in sight of "her" field and that mare! if the mare is off somewhere else she doesn't bother. she is at her worst in the stable as it is in a barn and she can't quite see the field. its almost as if she thinks she'll lose her place in the herd. she is better in the evenings as most of the horses are in so i can tack her up and school her no problem, its almost as if the horses are deliberately winding her up when she leaves the field.

when i walked her out in hand after her freaky outbreak I managed to get her settled and we practised walking and halting for a mile or so in a circular trip, so there is a glimmer of hope, it depends how fierce the initial strop is though whether i persevere or whether i let her think i am winning but actually end up coming back to the yard. if i get off and lead she is fine till i get back on, before i get my other foot in the stirrup she spins round and it all starts again.

[kofihorse]

Ph, poor you - this is a bit of a nightmare, isn't it. I had the exact same problem during the summer when Kofi was temporarily at a small yard. He was with two other geldings and was fine until a really psycho mare arrived and was put in the next field. She would go stark staring bonkers every so often, usually when he went out of the field, even though the others were still there. He was very naughty, but controllable, in the school because he couldn't actually see her but I couldn't hack in the huge big field at the back because she just galloped up and down the fence line and he lost the plot big-time, bucking and galloping on the spot, snorting and yanking at the reins, throwing his head around, very dangerous. She was the real reason he ran away from his trailer and tried to jump the fence back into his field. Unfortunately, he could see her as he approached the ramp and she was shouting and galloping along side the fence. If she was turned out before him or brought in after him, he had to have the top door shut or he would try to jump out of his stable. Not funny. But if she was quiet and not running amok, he was fine.

I think he was very confused by her behaviour and did think that there was something scary to horses looming on the horizon - i.e. she's galloping madly so there must be something to gallop away from.

I was very put out as the main reason for moving there for a couple of months was to practice trailer loading and to use the school and field for fittening him for endurance as it's all tarmac round here. Luckily, I had the choice of bringing him back home which I had to do.

The mare was there on part livery and the YO refused point blank to handle her after the first time she tried to turn her out and she reared repeatedly between stable and field.

BTW this mare is notorious for this behaviour - she has caused havoc at other yards.

Not much help, sorry! I don't think there is a solution to this without an awful lot of work and co-operation from other owner.