Persianhorse
Grand Prix Poster
The picture is taken from a figure found carved on a bone 5000 years ago in ancient Persia.
Posts: 3,405
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Post by Persianhorse on Dec 5, 2005 3:28:21 GMT 1
Lets talk about: 1-Body Language of the horse. 2-Imprint Training of the Foal. It is a pleasure for me wish you all the best and luck.
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Post by kas on Dec 5, 2005 10:16:46 GMT 1
Give us a bit more to go on then Body language is a bit of a large topic. On imprint training, if it's as taught by Dr Miller I'm against it. Too intrusive on the relationship between the mare and foal and almost wierd and abusive towards the foal. A bit of sensible handling I've got no problem with. Welcome to the board. If I'm correct English isn't your second language? Hope our slang makes sense!
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Persianhorse
Grand Prix Poster
The picture is taken from a figure found carved on a bone 5000 years ago in ancient Persia.
Posts: 3,405
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Post by Persianhorse on Dec 5, 2005 21:57:35 GMT 1
English is my second language I went to school in U.K and U.S.A. Imprint Training is like a blank recording tape which you can fill it up to some point and I think is good in many ways like shoeing the horse for example. The intrusive which you mention is wright but by connection with the mare before foaling the intrusive level will decrees very much,but it is good for the future of the foal to live next to human. You are wright Body language is a large topic,to find an eye is blind by watching the horse only? Wish you the best Kaz.
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Post by fin on Dec 5, 2005 22:27:46 GMT 1
Monty's very keen on imprint training, though he also believes a foal should be allowed to be a horse, and socialise mainly with other horses. So while it's been desensitized to humans at the moment of birth, it isn't missing horse-learning nor being over-handled....seems like a good compromise in theory!
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Post by kas on Dec 5, 2005 23:04:31 GMT 1
Whoops! I meant English was your second language - sorry! I don't know how Monty goes about imprinting a foal, but Dr Miller does loads and loads of stuff, much more than is needed with a foal I think. I was lucky enough to be around foals from birth a lot when I was a teenager. We were on good terms with the mares before they foaled anyway (through spending many hours with them in the field). When foalie came along we were able to handle them, play with their mouths and feet etc quite easily. This tended to continue as they got older with us handling them a bit, leading them a bit, playing with their feet when they were laying down etc etc. I think that sort of human contact is good, and it gradually takes in the more difficult things like shoeing as you mention Persianhorse.
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Post by jen1 on Dec 5, 2005 23:49:07 GMT 1
i did a very small amount of imprinting with fleur ,im convinced its paid me back 10 fold ,she is very laid back and trusts me yet i havent handled her much since,her mum by the way is an old stresshead and nothing like fleur,
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Persianhorse
Grand Prix Poster
The picture is taken from a figure found carved on a bone 5000 years ago in ancient Persia.
Posts: 3,405
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Post by Persianhorse on Dec 6, 2005 8:30:22 GMT 1
As you said (through spending many hours with them in the field) that is good and that is imprinting but it can be more advanced and more to their needs not to our needs. I have seen a new Born killed by her mother because it was her first foaling and the problem was the mares Breast was not desensitized and maybe tickling. this and many other problems occur when it comes to human handling non verbal language animals. wish you all the best.
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Post by kas on Dec 6, 2005 11:31:18 GMT 1
Can you tell me what you mean Persianhorse? What would your imprinting of a foal involve in the first hours of life? I can't imagine a situation where one of my horses would be sensitive around the udders as it's an area that I would be touching as routine during grooming all of their life. So I wouldn't make a big deal of it when they were a new born some hours old, but it shouldn't be an issue.
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Post by Val (Toons&co) on Dec 6, 2005 12:01:59 GMT 1
When I followed Kelly's foundation courses, we were shown (by Ian if I remember well) a video of Dr Miller's imprinting. Not something I would want to do to foals! However, we all agreed that desensitizing the foal AFTER he has had the opportunity to meet his mum (and drink his collostrum) can help in future handlings. But, later research has shown that this is only true if the foal continues to be handled regularly all his life and that a young horse can really be desensitized at any stage of his development.
I did desensitize my foal. Touched him all over the first day in the stable, put a headcollar on the next day and picked up his four feet the next. If anything, he's a bit too desensitized to my liking now (all over humans) and after being gelded, he's become as difficult with sheath cleaning as my other gelding - and he LOVED it before (he did, would lift his leg).
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Persianhorse
Grand Prix Poster
The picture is taken from a figure found carved on a bone 5000 years ago in ancient Persia.
Posts: 3,405
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Post by Persianhorse on Dec 8, 2005 5:32:49 GMT 1
Gelding horses I am against it because we believe it brings some kind of trauma and you have to work very hard to bring him back. In many places around the world that they don't keep horses like you do they don't even touch them until 2 years old and in one day they want to saddle them this is what I am against they beat them with all things,they tie them and they do it wrong from the first day,some they have herd of horses and Imprinting is important for them to learn. Forgive me for my bad English. wish you all the best.
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Persianhorse
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The picture is taken from a figure found carved on a bone 5000 years ago in ancient Persia.
Posts: 3,405
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Post by Persianhorse on Dec 17, 2005 0:27:00 GMT 1
We can tell the pregnancy the day after by watching her. The tool to know is Body Language.
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Persianhorse
Grand Prix Poster
The picture is taken from a figure found carved on a bone 5000 years ago in ancient Persia.
Posts: 3,405
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Post by Persianhorse on Dec 17, 2005 1:11:21 GMT 1
Imprint Training is like a Magic for Horse and all other animals and this is good because they want to live next to human,we are the problem.we put the poor animal in a cage or a box and we don't know anything about the nature of the poor animal.in general we ride the horse and we have to do somethings for the future.giving worm cream.saddling.put some one up there to show him or her the rider for the first time.shoeing.taking steps in all direction and many other things. They didn't come to life for human to ride them.this is the greatness of this animal even he/she changed physically for better riding.
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Nicola
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Post by Nicola on Dec 20, 2005 0:57:30 GMT 1
I completely disagree with the so called imprint training as suggested br Dr Miller for a number of reasons - firstly because i believe that some of his actions consititute abuse, inappropriate handing of orifices and the dominace of the foal are absolutly disgusting. Secondly Dr millers theroy is flawed as he is trying to apply imprinting to horses in the same way as birds. To clarify birds use imprinting on thier young to ensure the chicks will follow the mother to safety, there is a critical two day period where the chick can take on board this new information and any imprinting must be done within this time. However Horses are not birds!! they are a seperate species and learn and develop though thier lives, there is no sceintific eveidence to support Dr Millers theroy that horses like birds have a a critical period inn which to take in information after birth. Neither is there any evidence to prove that imprinted foals remain desensitised into adulthood.
In addition to all the above, the violent and invasive approach that Dr Miller uses the process interferes with the foals initial bonding with the mare, the tking of the colostrum and natural progression to standing. Can you imagine being born into the world - a fairly tramatic experiance in its own right to then be pulled around and have your orifices attacked with a rubber glove.
I cannot express my absolute revoltion at this technique! There is no reason why one cant produce a wonnderful horse with considerate and careful handling and introduction to various stimulus without resorting to this horrendus approach.
I think we need to seperate imprinting from education of the foal, two very very differnent things IMO
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Post by Yann on Dec 20, 2005 13:43:07 GMT 1
This is a subject I know very little about but I do have to say I was shocked at the procedure Monty was recommending in one of his books, it seemed like a gross intrusion into what should be a perfectly natural event. There are surely plenty of horses about that were never imprinted and have still turned out to be wonderful partners to humans.
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Nicola
Grand Prix Poster
Olympia tickets for ?10 for NSPCC see charity section
Posts: 2,473
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Post by Nicola on Dec 22, 2005 2:28:57 GMT 1
Hi Yann
I wasnt aware that monty endorsed Imprint training?
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