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Post by Catrin on Jan 12, 2013 10:05:50 GMT 1
At a Flint & Denbigh Pony Club meeting, twenty five years ago, Elwyn Hartley Edwards was asked, where the best classical riders could be seen. Most people expected him to say Vienna or Saumur, but he surprised everyone by saying California, because not only do they have the best skills, but they use them in their daily work with the horses.
Until I saw Monty doing flying changes at a demo, I hadn't witnessed anything that you'd see in an Advanced dressage test, but today I came across this at 2m22s in.
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Post by specialized on Jan 12, 2013 12:21:46 GMT 1
Western dressage is very big in the US and growing as a discipline.
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jinglejoys
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Post by jinglejoys on Jan 12, 2013 12:57:20 GMT 1
Done here too  |
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Post by cbc on Jan 12, 2013 14:15:25 GMT 1
I got into awful trouble with an old friend of mine some years ago for observing that (good) western riding had a lot in common with classical riding |
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Post by specialized on Jan 12, 2013 14:31:37 GMT 1
Modern dressage probably owes an awful lot to western and other working training anyway.
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Post by lisap on Jan 14, 2013 19:05:14 GMT 1
But it does - Good Western riding is from the same classical roots as the European schools - particularly the Spanish and Portugese. The main difference is the requirement for the lower head carriage of the Western Horse, which I understand is because high head carriages startle cattle (I don't know if this is true or not). The basic training of the western horse and the classically trained horse is nearly identical until the paths diverge towards the high school movements which are not generally a requirement of the western horse - although Trigger is doing a creditable piaffe at times! Equally the classical schools do not normally do sliding stops.... |
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Post by specialized on Jan 14, 2013 20:02:06 GMT 1
The low head carriage aids balance and response to moving cattle especially when roping, the head has to move around less when it is lower.
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Post by curlytobiano on Jan 14, 2013 22:33:59 GMT 1
LisaP mentions sliding stops. I have always imagined they could be quite bad for the horses' legs.... does anyone know? Would it be more or less than say piaffe or pirouette I wonder? It just seems more of an explosive movement to me. I think if I tried to do it with my own 2 legs I would do myself a mischief!
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Post by misty on Jan 14, 2013 22:40:01 GMT 1
They wear special shoes and use a special surface and it is frowned upon if people do it for too long, same with spinning.
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Post by curlytobiano on Jan 14, 2013 22:40:44 GMT 1
oh thanks Misty that makes a lot of sense |
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pip
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Post by pip on Jan 15, 2013 23:10:06 GMT 1
Anyone who has come across Dr. Deb Bennett will know all about the history of Classical riding and how it went to the west. And the answer is Yes.
I have a picture in my tack room of a cowboy who is cantering a lovely western horse doing a perfect canter - engagement, head carriage, still rider, all on a long, loose rein.
Also how and why there are horses in the New World that are gaited. In fact, according to Dr. Deb, a "gaited horse" meant that it was fully trained in all paces up to and including Spanish walk and trot. Spanish trot looks very much like the "rack" which is exhibited at USA horse shows with certain breeds. She had some old film clips taken very early in the 20th century which showed horses doing these paces, which were mainly in the circus and in exhibitions as the emigree riders tried to make a living in America. Fascinating stuff.
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jinglejoys
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Post by jinglejoys on Jan 15, 2013 23:36:40 GMT 1
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Post by specialized on Jan 16, 2013 9:23:29 GMT 1
A 'gaited' horse is not trained to gait, it is a natural pace which is only present in certain breeds - Icelandic, Saddlebred etc. A Spanish trot may look like a rack but one is trained the other is totally natural, in the same way that you can't train a trotter to pace.
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pip
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Post by pip on Jan 16, 2013 15:32:43 GMT 1
Yes, I know that about gaited horses.
The ORIGINAL meaning of a gaited horse (according to Dr. Deb) was a fully trained horse. Have you ever seen a horse doing a Spanish trot?
The origins of the gaited horses now in the USA were the old european breeds that were introduced into the New World. Obviously they have been bred over the centuries to exhibit certain breed characteristics which have been refined.
An interesting read is The Conquerers by Dr. Deb about how the horses and styles of riding went from Europe to the Americas.
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