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Post by donnalex on Dec 9, 2012 12:10:23 GMT 1
Just musing really. Wondering how many horses that are on a bespoke diet of minerals specifically balanced to their forage ration end up getting mud fever and/or rain scald? I dont mean the ones that are buying a general supplement without having first had their forage analysed I mean the ones that are using a service similar to Forageplus and not even their own winter or summer balancer, just the one with the addition of individual minerals to complement what is already in their forage Meaning that there should be no excesses of minerals as they seem to cause more trouble than the shortages. And if there are any that have succumbed to mud fever details of their living conditions. Would also be very interested in any that are on a bespoke mineral diet that have had episodes of azoturia (I had one pony that was dynamite for it) and colic. Just curiosity really.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 21:21:16 GMT 1
You might need to cast your net a bit wider - looking at my thread on MF there aren't all that many people whose horses are getting MF, you might get more of a response if you ask how many of those getting MF have minerals balanced.
I haven't but MF hasn't been an ongoing issue for us it's new since moving to a yard with much wetter fields.
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mel16
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Post by mel16 on Dec 9, 2012 21:48:45 GMT 1
I balance my horses minerals, and no mudfever.... or sunburn.... or chronic conjunctivitis with weepy bloodshot eyes....or recurrent thrush....all stuff he had when i bought him Oh yes and he's been living in a swamp for around 4 months now....
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Post by donnalex on Dec 9, 2012 23:32:46 GMT 1
Im just wondering if although it is expensive in the long run it works out actually cheaper if balancing minerals keeps them from getting common ailments and problems. I just know that if I had known about it years ago my amazing NF mare Megan would not haved suffered with loads of attacks of crucifyingly painful azoturia. I did sort it in the end but she had to be out nearly all the tikme which she hated as she was a pampered princess off a racehorse yard when I got her. She had sweet itch unknown when I bought her had frequent bouts of tying up and wind sucked which is why I could afford her as she was an out and out jumping machine who stopped at nothing. Her life would have improved overnight on balanced minerals for sure but she did own no less than three very new at the time Boett rugs so she enjoyed some luxury at least. Hers was the first one our vet had ever seen and all she could says was 'well its a good job horses are not vain'. was funny she thought I was a nutter! Most people come to mineral balancing through feet and barefoot, a few come from the temperament angle but I do think it probably helps with a lot of other things too. Going into tack shops and feed merchants I dont even look any more all those lotions, potions and supplements and they can soon tot up and I dont need them. Ive lost count of the stuff Ive bought to try and not used. And yes probably going on the mud fever threads might give more of an idea. So I d think that yes it breaks the bank a bit to set up in the first place but in the long run it can save some cash not to mention the benefits the horse and owner get. Makes you think
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Post by clipclop on Dec 10, 2012 7:55:39 GMT 1
You're right in a way - aside from azoturia which is caused by diet, the others you mention (sweetitch and mud fever) are linked to the immune system. Therefore, the healthier the body, the stronger the immune system and therefore less likely to show symptoms.
Don't forget also that it's not the mud as such that causes mud fever, the soil has to be of a ph and contain the bacteria that causes it. Add to that an immune weakness and it explains why some horses on a field will get it whilst others don't.
A lot of the lotions and potions can help whilst you sort out what's going on on the inside. The feed supplement for things like sweet itch however aim to strengthen the immune system and detox the horse and help from the inside. So in that sense, treating through diet isn't something new, just something that more people are starting to realise/understand.
As for azoturia and things like ulcers, of course mineral balancing will help with overall health but I'd also argue that improvements in these cases would be largely helped by the fact that the diet would be changing to fibre based if the owner was going down this route rather than necessarily the minerals themselves.
Sent from my ST18i using proboards
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mel16
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Post by mel16 on Dec 10, 2012 10:12:49 GMT 1
The health of the immune system is also linked to diet and the health of the gut....it isn't something seperate. On the subject of cost, after the initial cost of either completing a course or paying someone to do an analysis and feedplan, buying and mixing the minerals has worked out cheaper than the (highly recomended) off the shelf balancer I was buying and has definitly had a much better effect on his health. As I did all the calculations myself I know how far out tyhe off the shelf balancer was. I would never go back.
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Post by donnalex on Dec 10, 2012 10:22:07 GMT 1
How and where did you do the course Mel?
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Post by donnalex on Dec 10, 2012 10:25:52 GMT 1
It would have definitely help with the azoturia as the balance of sodium, potassium, calcium and magnesium would have sorted it. I had to keep her on Azodine from the vet which is a combination of all of these.
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Post by mandal on Dec 10, 2012 10:39:10 GMT 1
Don't know if mel16 did one of these but Dr Kellons courses are popular. www.drkellon.com/
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Post by mandal on Dec 10, 2012 10:44:08 GMT 1
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2012 11:29:22 GMT 1
I was thinking about this this morning (I'd always intended to get Talin's minerals balaced after we moved) and I don't really see how minerals in the diet can be the cause of his MF: the other five horses on the same field, fed the same haylage and the same hard feeds don't have it, so how can Talin be deficient whent he other five aren't? He's been there the least time and was on near perfect diet (according to forageplus) and Mf free previously.
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mel16
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Post by mel16 on Dec 10, 2012 11:40:15 GMT 1
Oh I'm a confirmed Dr Kellon student Mandal ....I'm on my 4th course! At the moment she has a 2 for 1 offer on too
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mel16
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Post by mel16 on Dec 10, 2012 11:44:54 GMT 1
michellep mineral deficiency isn't the cause of mf...but defiency causes deteriation of skin integrity, for one that allows bacteria to enter in the first instance and a compromised immune system in the second. Horses will show different levels of deficiency due to many reasons...length of time on that particular land, their mineral status at birth dur to mums levels as just a couple of examples...have to go to work now oops late!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2012 11:57:38 GMT 1
What you're describing is minerals being an indirect cause rather than direct... which I agree with, I don't believe they cause it directly... but it still doesn't make any sense in our case.
If mineral deficiency in forage were causing Talin to have a compromised immune system then it must be from his new grazing and haylage... which all the other horses have been on for far longer, but IMO none of them are showing any signs of a compromised immune system.
If it was due to mineral deficiency at birth then presumably it would have affected him his whole life (he's nearly 9) and it hasn't, he's never been ill before.
As an aside, if the minerals taken in at birth have an affect throught their life how can feeding more minerals help later in life? Or doesn't it for those horses?
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Post by spanisheyes on Dec 10, 2012 12:07:49 GMT 1
I have always thought it is the bacteria / fungi in the soil that give a horse mud fever. My boy who is grey never got mud fever at his last home (sandy soil) but now is prone to it (stoney soil). I have my suspicions that the MF he gets now is fungal and I dont see how balancing minerals would affect this? Strangely my little mare used to get MF at the last home and doesnt get it now
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