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Post by papershoes on Dec 3, 2011 20:36:56 GMT 1
My boy is nearing 20 now and I am really struggling to keep weight on him this winter. He had a month off work due to me being unable to ride, so he lost muscle AND weight - he is a poor doer thoroughbred and doesn't look so good at the moment He has a nice shiny coat, bright eyes and is perky in himself, but I can't seem to get the weight back on him. He is out during the day with a big haylage pile in his field and in at night with an even bigger haylage pile. I feed him on the thunderbrook feeds - this seems to be the only diet combination I have found where he doesn't colic. He has had a course of gastrogard over the summer to hopefully cancel out any chance of ulcers. I can't feed him alfalfa as he seems to get 'footy' on it. He isn't fed a joint supplement but seems to be struggling a bit now it's getting colder - when he got up from laying down having a nap in the field he walked off and looked very lame in one leg (walked it off though, so it's down to stiffness rather than joint problems.. fingers crossed.) I'm thinking he might need some extra joint support too now. He also isn't keeping his temperature very well - tonight (its about 4/5 degrees here) he is wearing a MW stable rug AND a HW stable rug with a neck and is warm enough. The other night I had to put the MW under his HW as he wasn't warm enough with just the heavyweight on and it has a 370gms filling He also wore his heavyweight turnout in the field yesterday due to the bitterly cold wind. He isn't clipped either. I don't think I'm overrugging as I haven't seen any sweat and he seems perfectly happy in himself, not lethargic as if he was too hot. It worries me that he is only warm enough in such heavy rugs already and we're not even in the worst of the winter yet He has had his teeth done last month and they were fine. Recently worm counted too. I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do! I think his age is finally catching up with him Cookies for anyone who got this far ;D
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Post by Zuzan on Dec 3, 2011 20:44:19 GMT 1
Just a thought but are you feeding the soaked / sprouted oats thunderbrook do.. ? or just their base mix? Is worth phoning them? I've no experience of thunderbrook myself tho.
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wills
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 4,657
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Post by wills on Dec 3, 2011 20:45:36 GMT 1
Speak to your feed company & see what they can suggest.
When you say he gets a big pile of haylage, is it ad lib? If not I'd be inclined to let him have access to as much as he likes.
I feel for you my old tb(sadly no longer with us) was also a nightmare in winter to keep warm & weight on. In these kind of temps I would also hand had 2 (atleast) rugs on him.
Are you able to get him exercised now? I always found Olly to keep weight on better if he was in work.
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Post by papershoes on Dec 3, 2011 20:47:41 GMT 1
I have ordered him some oats which should arrive Monday - I spoke to Debbie who recommended this. Yep, haylage is ad-lib. Enough to feed an elephant! He is also back in work now
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Post by bertie666 on Dec 3, 2011 20:54:16 GMT 1
I put a 16 yr old on the thunderbrooks base mix, bran and oats last yr as she had been out in -15 without enough forage and she put weight on really well
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Post by jill on Dec 3, 2011 21:10:00 GMT 1
Have you had him tested for Cushings? He is the right sort of age and being "footy" is one of the clinical signs, along with failure to shed his coat in spring (sometimes hard to tell with a TB) and fat pads, especially above the eyes. If he has a raised level of ACTH (blood test to ascertain) Pergolide or rather Prascend will make all the difference. He could also be insulin resistant in which case you need to reduce all sugars including starch from cereals - Jackie JA Taylor has a first class diet sheet. Ask your vet to check him out. I'll have double choc chip please
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Post by papershoes on Dec 3, 2011 21:44:18 GMT 1
Phew hopefully he will start to put weight on with the oats. I haven't had him tested for cushings but it has been playing on my mind a bit! He does shed his winter coat normally, but I think with cushings they dont always show all the symptoms?
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Post by jill on Dec 3, 2011 22:39:26 GMT 1
Phew hopefully he will start to put weight on with the oats. I haven't had him tested for cushings but it has been playing on my mind a bit! He does shed his winter coat normally, but I think with cushings they dont always show all the symptoms? Yes, you are right about that but hopefully if he isn't presenting the full range of symptoms but still has elevated ACTH levels, you may have caught it in the early stages, in which case I have found chasteberry (Vitex, or agnus castus) really helps, especially with weight and top line. You can get it on ebay, or from Natural Horse Supplies on line. Problem is you won't know without testing whether the Vitex didn't work because he doesn't have Cushings or because it is too advanced. The only way to really tell is the blood test, and I gather it costs around £45 for the test + the vet visit and time. Worth doing IMO.
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madmare1
Grand Prix Poster
The Gruesome Twosome
Posts: 1,500
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Post by madmare1 on Dec 4, 2011 11:30:09 GMT 1
I'd recommend the Calm and Condition from Allen and Page's barley and molasses free range...fab for sensitive stomachs (had a mare allergic to barley and this put weight on her brilliantly) and really does what it says on the bag! Also, just to help his joints, a bit of cider apple vinegar or cod liver oil will help...if he does stiffen up, alphabute from global herbs....incredible stuff, helped my 25yr old get over a tendon sprain in just 4 days!
I don't have the 'can't put weight on' scenario, I have the 'OMG I'm going to die' scenario..and thats on the 25yr old!!!! She's getting up to 2 hours per day work and is still bouncing around like a prat..she ran away with me the other day, because a bird cheeped in the tree, silly mare! She's got a chaser clip, is in a MW stable rug, has 3 nets per day of haylage and is on 16+, senior molichop and a dribble of molasses....and I can't get enough work into her! the 6yr old is the quieter of the 2!!!
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Post by papershoes on Dec 4, 2011 22:48:13 GMT 1
Thanks I think I have used C&C before but he went a bit bonky on it..typical thoroughbred! Going to ring the vet tomorrow and see if I can arrange a bloodtest
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Post by helenj on Dec 5, 2011 18:43:00 GMT 1
Hi papershoes
Still finding my way through the maze of feeds, like most people, but chucking my penny's worth in anyway.
My understanding is that if you want to increase calories without causing behaviour / digestive problems, you need to increase the level of oil and protein, rather than starch and sugar.
Looking at the thunderbrook feed, the percentages are the right way round, but are you getting enough volume? So, you are probably feeding they quantities shown by thunderbrook for your guy's weight, but will this be sufficient to help him gain? I'm thinking about the amount of oil in a feed, versus the amount in a trug full of Alfa-oil or 16+. It may be that you need to add a slug of oil to the feed as well.
At the rescue where I used to work, we made great use of lambs milk powder, to wonderful effect on TB's weight, but you need to consider the relatively high sugar content.
I think great that you are getting blood tests for cushings but I would also talk to thunderbrook and see what they suggest.
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Post by jill on Dec 5, 2011 18:58:59 GMT 1
I have used soya protein, micronised linseed and whey powder at various times, but rely mainly on grass nuts, Speedibeet and Top Spec Cool Condition which is cereal free for Her cushingoid Ladyship (32). Life would be easier if she would eat forage but this, with her Pergolide, keeps her in not too bad condition. All soaked because she is dentally challenged
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Post by nich on Dec 6, 2011 15:53:10 GMT 1
one of my mares lost condition over the summer on Thunderbrooks. She is now on PURE plus linseed oil and a cup of top spec - only because i can't get her to eat the recommended daily amount - and looks much better.
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Post by mags on Dec 6, 2011 17:16:23 GMT 1
I'd also give the micronized linseed a thumbs up. The omega 3 fatty acids in it are good for joint health, and it's packed with calories (20MJ/kg), mostly from fats and proteins, so not likely to make your horse fizzy.
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Post by Hannah on Dec 6, 2011 17:40:51 GMT 1
Another suggestion for micronised linseed. I buy from Charnwood milling, good value and service I'm not too clued up on Thunderbrook feeds but my old tb looks very well on Top Spec balancer and I top up with their Cool Condition cubes if he needs them. Ample forage i.e. grass or hay is THE most important thing to help keep weight on IME
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