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Post by jennyb on Jul 11, 2011 8:38:36 GMT 1
Exactly Lisa. Competition only "taints" the riding if the rider allows it. I only compete as a benchmark for progress, I find a third party opinion (mostly!) useful, the placings are just an added bonus, not the aim for me.
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Post by sarahandrieu on Jul 11, 2011 9:38:43 GMT 1
Totally agree!!
I am currently trying to actually get a response from BD re. repointing my horse so I can get out competing in time (all being well with rebacking etc of course!). The system is quite frustrating because they class him as an 'import' (German) despite the fact I bought him completely broken from a riding school. Because of his age this puts him on i think 450 pts - crazy. They also are not very good at returning calls which doesn't help! I suspect I will end up just taking him out on tickets.
I really want to do this firstly for the reasons above, to show you can succesfully compete whilst still training classically and kindly, but secondly I would like my horse to be able to be ridden and compete and actually enjoy it, as from what I know his previous experience was pretty awful and painful for him.
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Post by jennyb on Jul 11, 2011 9:43:40 GMT 1
Depends on the age at importing Sarah. Gazdag was imported at 4yo and therefore has no points from importation. You should be able to get him downgraded though, I think you have to ride in front of an assessor or two so that they can assess his current stage of training.
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annie
Intermediate Poster
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Post by annie on Jul 11, 2011 9:47:48 GMT 1
One of my prouder moments was my daughter winning a Novice dressage competition at our local show. She isn't really interested in dressage and was only there for the usual hunter classes etc. As there was quite a large gap between classes I asked if she could enter last minute for the dressage comp and was told she could. She only had her double bridle so borrowed a friend's snaffle bridle, whipped the noseband off as horsey doesn't like padded nosebands and off she went. A friend had to read the test out as she didn't know it. Bearing in mind there was a lot of competition as Andrew Day's yard is just a few minutes away and a few from his yard were there, I thought it was just good experience for her horse. She hadn't even got the gear on and was all dressed up in tweeds.
Imagine our astonishment when it was announced on loudspeaker of all things that she had won - 72%. The judge who apparently is quite well known (not that I'd know) commented how nice it was to see a horse ridden lightly, correctly who was obviously happy in his work and said he had the potential to go far. A very enlightened judge I thought.
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Post by sarahandrieu on Jul 11, 2011 9:47:49 GMT 1
Thanks - yes that's what I have been trying to ring them to arrange. Was hoping I could show them his lumpy back and they would repoint him to prelim lol!! He was imported at 12 I don't have my BD rule book in front of me but i think that takes him to 450. With me riding I think he repoints at elementary or medium but that's not realistic at the moment - maybe one day!
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Post by holi on Jul 11, 2011 12:27:41 GMT 1
Andrew Day follows classical principles - he was a rider for TTT and trained with Arthur Kottas and Charles de Kunffy. I see no reason while competition and classical principles should be mutaull exclusive.
Well done though - its great coming out and showing others what can be done with bullying
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Post by annabelle h on Jul 11, 2011 12:42:27 GMT 1
Bravo Jenny! Yes, I think it is good for anyone who wants to train classically and well, to be able to go out and do a creditable dressage test. Even if the judges are judging by different criteria than us (some do, some don't, IME, and it does seem to be getting better . .). As you say Jenny it is about experience, some (hopefully useful) feedback and the rounded education of the horse. Marks can be more subjective, and placings depend totally on who else turns up, so to me they are less important. The Irish beast and I are doing some dressidge and SJ, first affiliated comps coming up soon. Unaff has helped with reducing pilot error I have a talent for taking an occasional scenic route in both Dr and SJ . . The more people who are seen competing with cavesson nosebands, invisible aids and an air of patience and kindness. . the better. Annabelle PS - Jenny - stick to the saddle that comes without handlebars, lol
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Post by jennyb on Jul 11, 2011 12:47:37 GMT 1
Yay, good luck Annabelle, look forward to hearing all about it! holi - I have had some lessons from Andrew Day, and also Roland Tong, both are mainstream BD riders and trainers who also train classically. Haven't seen Roland ride yet but he has trained 5 horses to GP, and Andrew (and his kids!) have seats to die for, they make you green with envy when you see them riding. My highlight of yesterday was riding past the lady who had a sit on Gazdag, when she was warming up her cob. The horse was spooking at something, she looked at us and said to her horse "See, that horse isn't scared of everything, why are you being so silly?!" I realised how far we have come when Gazdag is being held up as an example of calm behaviour, roll back 12 months and I think he was scattering the other horses in the collecting ring, spooking at the Gate of Doom....
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Post by sarahandrieu on Jul 11, 2011 12:54:44 GMT 1
Yay, good luck Annabelle, look forward to hearing all about it! holi - I have had some lessons from Andrew Day, and also Roland Tong, both are mainstream BD riders and trainers who also train classically. Haven't seen Roland ride yet but he has trained 5 horses to GP, and Andrew (and his kids!) have seats to die for, they make you green with envy when you see them riding. My highlight of yesterday was riding past the lady who had a sit on Gazdag, when she was warming up her cob. The horse was spooking at something, she looked at us and said to her horse "See, that horse isn't scared of everything, why are you being so silly?!" I realised how far we have come when Gazdag is being held up as an example of calm behaviour, roll back 12 months and I think he was scattering the other horses in the collecting ring, spooking at the Gate of Doom.... My trainer also rides at the TTT with kottas and de kunffy and affiliates BD - so it can be done Well done jennyb - you give me hope that my horse might one day stop spooking at arena boards and white flower pots!
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Rik
Elementary Poster
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Post by Rik on Jul 11, 2011 12:58:20 GMT 1
Pursuit of the Centaur is totally consuming to the point where there is nothing else, it’s like an addiction with agony and ecstasy.
There have been many many different schools of Classical Riding across Europe through time, with similarities and differences.
There were countries/methods/schools that were very bio mechanically hard on the horse’s exo muscular system (Some on the hind quarters some on the fore) others that were mentally tough to the point of abuse.
Just like Dressage there is good and bad, Classical per se is not Good but imo comparing an Art with a Sport is problematic especially when both are fluid and continue to evolve.
Imo there should be no focus on Classical or not, Riding is either good or bad the genre is irrelevant.
And it's just that, an opinion.
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steve
Grand Prix Poster
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Post by steve on Jul 11, 2011 13:30:29 GMT 1
Well done Jenny that is an excellent achievement! Even more rewarding knowing you have put all the work in and not bought a "ready made"!!
What boggles me though is our so called "top/elite" riders are so successful yet are not following the FEI guidelines which are based on the German scales of training. I think we are lucky in the UK, as we have some very good riders to admire such as Laura B, Carl, Charlotte, the Eilbergs etc, yet the Dutch are SOOO successful in competition yet they look nothing like what I understand the correct picture to be! Have the judges all got a different picture in mind?
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Post by jennyb on Jul 11, 2011 14:27:05 GMT 1
Imo there should be no focus on Classical or not, Riding is either good or bad the genre is irrelevant. Exactly the point of this thread Rik. Not sure if you have followed previous discussions on here, but there has been some leanings towards classical = good and competition = bad. Many of us on here follow classical teachings (and I agree that there is good and bad in classical, it's a very widely-used term!) and I just thought it might be interesting to some to know that the terms classical and competition, when referred to dressage, need not be mutually exclusive. That's all. Your points are very valid and have indeed been raised here before in many other discussions.
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Post by holi on Jul 11, 2011 15:03:25 GMT 1
Sylvia Loch tried to have dressage tests for the Classical Riders Group. I joined it when it first came out but then the takeup was poor and most people 'wedged the head! (and sadly still do!)
Well done jennyb - my instructor (who taught on classical principles) used to say to go out occassionally and beat the lot of them (as she did) lol
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annie
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Post by annie on Jul 11, 2011 18:30:26 GMT 1
Andrew Day follows classical principles - he was a rider for TTT and trained with Arthur Kottas and Charles de Kunffy. I see no reason while competition and classical principles should be mutaull exclusive. I'm a bit confused here. Do classical principles involve using draw reins. As someone who is on the same livery yard as someone who trains with Andrew Day I was shocked to see her using draw reins. She was encouraged by Andrew to use these in order to get her horse's head in. I am not making this up and at the show in question I actually saw two of his liveries warming up using draw reins. Maybe the judge saw this too and didn't approve. Maybe one or two from this forum remember Andrew breaking his leg several years ago in a horseriding accident. I was watching while he got on a young horse and give it merry hell around the manege. Horse got upset and reared and fell on Andrew breaking his leg. Served him right. It was shocking to watch.
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Derek Clark
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Olympic Poster
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Post by Derek Clark on Jul 11, 2011 18:51:35 GMT 1
A very good question... Technically, the answer is probably yes, since they were invented by the Duke of Newcastle who is regarded as just about the only British 'classical' master (in the sense that he is very old as well as very dead ). The key, however, is that Newcastle invented draw reins in order to help with bending a very difficult horse to the side and not to force (or even encourage) a horse to flex longitudinally. [mta: in fact, the two are anatomically mutually exclusive - the more the poll is flexed (or even the more the neck is over flexed) the less the horse can bend to the side.] Because of the sideways action they were only ever intended to be used one at a time, for a specific purpose and then discarded very shortly afterwards. So, the item could be called 'classical', but the typical use in the modern day is a million miles away... Derek
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