Join-up - Help!

[irishdream]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone who had successfully completed join-up could help me on a few issues I have had with it?

I attempted join-up with my pony, who I have owned for just over 2 years for the first time a week ago. After many years of following Monty Robert's techniques, watching his videos and reading his books I finally gatherer up the courage to try them out for myself.
After about 30 mins of me sending her away and cantering around in both directions she had her inside ear locked on me and she showed signs of lowering her head - however she did not show any signs of licking & chewing?
A short while later, she stopped, and I turned away from her. However she simply stood there staring at me, for about 10-15 mins while I patiently stood there - so a witness told me! Finally I decided that I could stand there no longer, and so I slowly walked up to her, backwards, and once I reached her I praised her and finished there.
I'm not sure what I did wrong, but could the reason be why she stood staring at me rather then walking up to me, be because she was not ready to join-up yet and so I should have sent her away for longer?

I would really appreciate your help!

[sarahbing]

You really need to learn join up 'straight from the horses mouth' so to speak! No-one is qualified to teach join up except Kelly(and Monty), so I would recommend attending one of her courses at Hartsop.

Without meddling though, sending away for 30 mins is far too long - you both must have been exhausted!!

It is an intricate process with much more going on than meets the eye, so is best taught by an expert to avoid any confusion for you or your horse.

Good luck. Once learnt it is an excellent tool to use with youngsters to cement your bond before starting

[rifruffian]

Hullo sarahbing, interesting post.

I gather there are two people in the world qualified to teach join up. Who taught those two people? What are the qualifications ?

[sarahbing]

Ha ha RR. I think many people know how to do it, but my understanding is that IH aim for students to be taught by Kelly, or one of the RA's on the courses to avoid any misunderstandings or dilutions. I am sure many people have attempted join up from videos, books etc and many may well have had some success,but equally, I am sure many would have got themselves in a complete muddle.I don't think IH is being 'precious' about it, but having seen it first hand, it is a very skilled process if you wish to avoid confusing the horse and yourself. There is more to it than you can see on a video.
Hope this comes across as it is meant, not as some elitist/exclusive , 'you must go on the course' sort of comment.

P.S. I was only commenting on the Uk position. I have no knowledge of the position outside the UK

[rifruffian]

Thanks for reply sarahbing. I think maybe Monty has some sort of commercial rights to the expression 'join up'. I find the notion of people making money out of this particular equine behaviour quite weird, but I am probably alone in this respect. If you are in, around and amongst horses for a fair old time......I see it as something that just comes to you as an experience, one day.

[zel]

I was just having a very similar conversation with my best friend about this, when 'join up' became a well known phrase and the IH methods more widely talked about, we both looked at our old mares, who we could do anything with and who would follow us around the yard and call and come over to us in the field when we turned up and thought, really? But then, I guess it must be a magical moment when it first happens and you are aware you consciously were a part of it. I do want to try it with my new youngster, as starting from scratch again it seems like a natural thing to try and follow. In fairness it took years to reach the relationship I had last time round, so anything that facilitates that trust is all good by my book. However, I cannot afford a course (yet) so will be just playing around with the exercises and having fun with her the same way I did last time..and will let it progress.

[sarahbing]

I do see your point both of you. For me, as a kinasthetic learner, I benefitted hugely from being shown how to do it, and then doing it myself,learning under supervision from excellent teachers. Yes, aspects of it will come naturally to many experienced horsemen and women, but equally, we can't assume that.

I had a very wise old boss once (actually he wasn't much older than me but much wiser!) who always said there was no such thing as common sense, just what is obvious to ourselves. What is obvious to you RR comes from years of experience and intuition. Not everyone has that. For instance, just this morning, my husband offered to turn out the horses for me, not something he often does, as he is completely non horsey. I said 'can you give them some hay' He did, but in one big pile! Not something we would do as it is obvious to us, but not to him.
Likewise, I think Join Up could very easily degenerate into 'chasing a horse around a round pen', losing it's credibility in the process, if you know what I mean, and I think that is why it is 'protected', business interests apart!
Obviously, (ha ha) that is just my opinion

[Bridget RA]

Can I just back SarahBing up here.

Join up is far more intricate than is often made out and is hard (although not impossible) to learn from books or DVD's

Sarah is right even the RA's and MRPCH holders are not allowed to teach Join Up so if you are really keen to learn more, the courses are the way to go (and may even change your life....)

Although I will also just say 'join up' itself is not the point, but the conversation it starts is the point.

However, just to pick up on some of what you said - Sarah is right 30 minutes is far too long to send away - by that point your horse would have decided that you were clearly ignoring all her signals and that you most definitely wanted her to stay out there. You did right not to send her away any more.

Many horses learn to 'screen out' human body language as we give such conflicting signals/use our bodies so unconsciously so much of the time. The fact that you got two signs from your horse was great, often the licking and chewing will happen later (i.e. once your horse has actually come to you) if at all.

On the good note, you will have done absolutely no harm as you went to your mare and praised her so don't worry about it. But I do recommend getting some help before trying again. If you can't afford to go on a course, you can go as a helper and learn a lot from watching.

Good luck x

[rifruffian]

I am surprised to read that RA and MRPCH are forbidden (by whom ?) to teach the procedure known as 'join up' and amazed that these people will submit to such a regime.