Acetyl L Carnitine & EPSM

[Trouble]

Anyone know anything about this? Good or bad?

The more i read, the more I think I'm on to something...he's had the diet change...but I've also read that Acetyl L Carnitine is really good for EPSM horses, but don't want to go feeding random supplements without knowing a bit more about it!

Anyone have anything on this??

[appy]

Hiya

I don't feed my boy L carnitine, instead I rely on the vits/mins in outshine and top spec. Seems to be fine so far..... If I was feeding much more oil, though, I might want to feed more vit e perhaps.

It might be worth emailing Beth Valentine, she was really helpful when I contacted her with a long list of my horse's symptoms!

I do hope that this is an avenue that helps you and Snip, I really do. I got my horse back when I worked out it was EPSM, and over the coming years together with a lot of groundwork etc, he now moves in a way I'd never have thought possible.

[Trouble]

I've been reading Beth Valentine's stuff, and that was one of the first places I saw about the L carnitine, and then looked up some more on it from there!

[Trouble]

Well, coincidence! I have had a phone call from my vet - I spoke to him monday and his opinion was that I could be onto something.

He called today to say that Snip has been on his mind and he would like to come out (once the weather has improved) and do a full workup to investigate possible EPSM/Shivers or Stringhalt. He said that the more he thinks about it, the more he thinks there is something in it.

He did also talk about doing the muscle biopsy, which I'm not so sure about, I need to do some thinking on that, but whilst the weather is like this we can't d o the trot ups or felxion tests anyway.

He's advised to keep him on the new diet and keep a diary of the improvements and as soon as we thaw out, give him a call and we'll get on it.

One of the things he did say is that he didn't want to try the treating by diet now, and then investigate further down the line bacause it will affect my insurance if it did come to something and i made a claim....the insurance company would insist on knowing when I first contacted the vet and started the new diet.

makes sense!

The fact the vet contacted me on all this, sort of ups my excitement levels and thinking that it really is going to come to something!!!

[troop]

fingers crossed you can finally find a diagnosis and work on sorting the issues out x

[appy]

Good luck, sounds v promising. Have to say I'm not sure how just changing his diet could rule out any treatment being not covered under insurance. You could say that you are feeding extra oil to put weight on during the cold winter months What you feed him - I feel - is separate from a diagnosed medical condition. In other words, you are totally within your rights to change his diet yourself not as a result of a diagnosis but because you feel he would benefit. Having said all that, insurers are def looking for ways to get out of it!

Really hope you are onto something - what are you changing his diet to? Perhaps other EPSM-ers can help with their experiences when first changing diets. I know if the horse is fussy several people put the oil into unmollassed sugar beet, let it absorb and then make it up.

Keep us posted!

[jill]

You sound really excited by this Trouble - I really hope it is the answer for you both, happier horse and happier owner.

[Trouble]

I think the vet was concerned that the insurance might dig into any large claim, seeing as in the last 112 months I have claimed my full £5k limit on ulcer cures...starting last Jan - if I start another long term claim this year they are more likely, or possible to, ask questions....so I think he just wanted to make sure that delaying wasn't going to raise any questions.

They record advice given out over the phone I think, so that will be on my vet records too!

[Trouble]

Jill - lol, I think my brain is wired backwards, getting excited about the prospect of my horse having a medical condition - but his future is looking so bleak if I can't find the problem, that any lifeline get's me bouncing off the walls!!

[Azrael]

Fortunatly EPSM isn't even expensive to treat. Mine that has it has sugarbeet, chaff, linseed, tesco sunflower oil and selenavite E and its no more expensive than the diet she was on before. My vet bills relating to it are tiny as well, two visits from different vets who had no idea what was wrong with her and weren't too helpful about carrying on trying to figure it out so I ended up trying diet and it worked, if I had got the vet back it'd only have been the cost of the biopsy to add on.

Not sure if starting the diet now would affect the result of a biopsy later since the diet hugely reduces the muscle damage the biopsy is looking for so makes sense to not go for diet first if getting a biopsy done.

[mandal]

Jan 6, 2010 13:07:32 GMT 1 Trouble said:

Jill - lol, I think my brain is wired backwards, getting excited about the prospect of my horse having a medical condition - but his future is looking so bleak if I can't find the problem, that any lifeline get's me bouncing off the walls!!

I totally understand where you're coming from here!

I so hope you are onto something to help Snip and you.

[arabheaven]

Zac is assumed to have EPSM. I say assumed because he shows all the symptoms having tied up following a slight increase in starch in his diet. The vet didn't want to investigate it fully because you have to do a muscle biopsy at the top of their quarters which basically takes ages to heal and it isn't really worth it. If you assume he has it and treat him as such it will relieve the symptoms withouth the biopsy.

EPSM isn't really known much about over here, Beth Valentine is a wonderful fountain of info, I had a lot of email conversations with her about Zac when he tied up and she also conversed with my vet.

Zac basically has a high fibre feed. I tried the oil diet but it got to a certain level and he wouldn't touch his feed so I feed him the most oil he will eat, which isn't as much as recommended for EPSM but it helps, and he has Vit E and selenium in his vit supplement.
He had ongoing intense physio for 8 months. His muscles do still get very tight so I have a massage ball and set of routines to stretch out his damaged hindquarter muscle. Best of luck with it all xxx

[2 bays & a grey:D]

Trouble I hope this is the answer to all you worries and you can look forward to a bright furure with your lovely boy, and well done for being so dedicated in your efforts to find things, a lot of people would have doped and sent to dealers . Its nice to read on this forum that a lot of people see them as pets and not just commodoties to be done away with once they no longer have a use!!