Reasons behind and how too ? ?

[daisysp8]

Ok, Lottie point blank refuses to hack out alone, she won`t walk out inhand alone, ride out alone, longline out alone and becomes too much of a mess to calm down.

Even just walking her down the track into the next field that i use for schooling, (still in full view of the other neds, and in no way closed off) she goes beserk (better once she`s in there, just the initial walk down the track). Walking her down the track towards the gate to the main road, she ends up a mess.


Before i moved her to where we are now, we were out and about (with my friend Sue and her horse for company) she was good the first 2 or 3 times as it was all new to her, but the last couple of times she was a prancing, shaking, calling, plonker trying to get back to her field.

I can try and walk her down the lane everyday for 7 days and it equals the same paddy fit every day .

What can i do to get her comfortable with hacking out alone ? (or in company with my friend on her gelding).

The first few times Lottie and I ever hacked out with my friend Sue on her gelding, Lottie was good, but as mentioned above last 2 times we went out she started with the "on a mission" and screaming like a banshee to get home to the other ned in the field next door (he was calling to her) even though she didn`t like him ? ?


When inhand or ridden, she runs backwards (at speed) and tries to spin, and for every step or 2 i get forwards we literally go 5 back. I`ve done more inhand work using the dually, which she does respect to a point, but when she decides "I`m going that way" ... There isn`t always a lot i can do about it. She is good with pressure and release, and good through the poles, its like that engages her, but she then "twigs" we`re heading away from the field/the others and *boom* ...

Its getting me down now as it feels like groundhog day with her, she schools lovely (well mostly lol) when she is in her comfort zone, but i want to start really getting out and about.

My non IH horsey peeps say "Make her do it" .... use whips, spurs etc .... and regale stories of how they`ve ended up in ditches with their horses but the horse has finally done as its told, but i don`t want to end up in a ditch .... There has got to be another way surely ?

Its not something that has bothered me, as schooling and inhand work has been more than enough for me in this first year (as well as the occasional hack with my friend Sue) ..... But i want to do more.

Thanks x

[magicofhorses]

Well, without seeing the horse and it's reactions hard to judge and assuming back,saddle checks etc...; but have you considered the use of riding in blinkers. They can be used yes for rearers but also helpful in napping cases etc...as get the horse to focus forward.

You say the poles engage her to a point so that at least is positive - how long do you tend to try and work her alone for before you get this reaction? Also, could you try some other similar activities that try an engage her?

Rather than just thinking - "we'll walk down there for 5 mins then turn around" make it into more of a conversation "we'll walk to that telegraph pole there, do a turn on the forehand, trot for 10 strides X way, back up so many strides, walk march to the next large tree..."

Keep her focused as best as you can - maybe even if possible encourage more positive reinforcement (esp if food motivated) into the training - hide bits of apple under stones, on top of cones etc... try to train her mind to think "what's next" not "what's going on back there" - easy to say, hard to do

Also is she fed in a herd / alone - can you take her so far away and then have a feed handy so she get's used to the idea of being fed further and further away??? Make being away from the others more positive than it is?

Also a note on the blinkers - would seriously suggest help of RA when putting these on esp for the first time so you know what you are doing and don't create another problem so to speak.

Best of luck

[Trouble]

Back in the day when Snip was rideable (!) he was a right pansy to hack (hardly a surprise!) and I would just walk out to a point i know he was fine with....and back again (to begin with that was half way down the yard drive!)

Then we went a few yards further, then a few yards further....and judt extended the walk a few feet or yards at a time, over the course of a few weeks.

The principle behind it was that I turned him round before he got to a point he was uncomfortable with.

If I misjudged and we passed that point, and he hada paddy, I'd take him back to the yard and work him hard...so that going home wasn't the easy option.

If he walked quietly to my chosen point and back, I'd leave it at that for the day.

It took about a month but he was a brilliant hack after that.

[daisysp8]

Hey MOH .... You`re not 1st person to suggest blinkers, so this is something i`m honestly contemplating.

I can work her with the poles in the (schooling) field til the cows come home, she`ll go back and forth, side to side, good as gold. Its the point in which i gradually move her away towards the track/road that she *clicks* ... and says "nah ah" i`m not doing that/going there.

She`s not interested in food in any whay shape or form when she`s in "that" frame of mind .... nothing makes a difference .... bucket feeds, carrots, treats, apples, she`ll just fidget and nose the bucket over, almost like she`s taking the frustration out on the bucket lol

She`ll then turn and whinny and stand there shaking/prancing on the spot and trying to walk to where she wants to be (back in the field). Food in any other circumstance works with her, apart from this one. Her focus goes and she just "zones" out, i genuniely can`t get her back, no amount of circling/backing up seems to get her back to me. I feel like i`ve exhausted everything that usually works.

I seem to get further (and better results) when i`m riding her (at least just getting down the track to the schooling field), its as if she "knows" what her job is when i`m aboard, she just really doesn`t want to do it, but can be pursuaded more so to go forwards when i`m onboard.

I`m thinking the blinkers could help a bit, and at least bring her attention/focus forward, even if only temporarily i can build on that.

Jo, i know you know how i feel .... lol .... frustration lolololol x

[potto]

Just before you go down the blinkers route..... which i have used successfully... I have to say, that i am not sure i would do this if i hadn't got my horse confident with me on the ground to start with and walking out safely alone unless there were particular reasons that dictated it..? I seem to do a lot of work with horses that need 'separating' from friends or need confidence building or have to learn how to live out of a herd situation.....

Interestingly one of the things that people always say is they won't walk out or hack alone? I always say it would be dangerous to make them? Don't you usually go with them? .....
It seems from what you are saying that your horse is not seeing you .... and 'feels alone and frightened or unprotected from danger' .... which would mean that you need to work on consistancy in your groundwork and horse leadership skills....? maybe when your horse gets stressy you do too (confess it is hard not to.) It is handy to have someone to remind you to breath slowly and relax... make the horse walk at your speed.. remind you of exact timing.. vital with a horse that needs real consistance when setting 'ground rules' to make them feel secure... At the same time do you worry that you are 'alone' when you are only with your horse? Their comes a point where you start to help each other by listening to what each other wants.... and how each other responds

I am sure you know all this already, and i have been here so many times, frustratingly the most difficult with my own horse last year but realised my timing and consistancy cockups were the key to getting it right eventually...

I really would get someone if possible out to check you are going in the right direction before making things more complicated and getting more frustrated, it may be what you are doing is right and you just have to carry on.... and keep other things up your sleeve..for later.. groundwork really does need to be right before the ridden stuff or you really get into trouble xxx good luck

[jaxnbreeze]

Mares are often sharper this time of the year due to not coming into season and the cooler weather. What was she like this time last year daisy? Do you know her history and has she been hunted in the past? My old mare, a former hunter, was always a bit more wound-up in the winter and could hear the hunt when it was miles away.

[gillmcg]

What Potto says makes total sense to me and if I were you Daisy I'd think hard on what she's posted.

I used to feel I was going out 'alone' when I was with my horse. I suddenly realised that when I was in that frame of mind he really felt he needed to take control and make the decisions. Not a position I wanted to be in. I managed to realise this when he was only thinking 'OK, she's checked out, going home now!' rather than getting to the full blown stopping, turning and leaving! It really helps to have a purpose - as MOH says too - and the walk to that fence post, turn on the forehand, two steps reinback, trot to the bench, halt at the tree, etc etc, really helps. But you have to mean it! Having read one of Mark Rashid's books lately he was surprised at how many nappy horses he found at his clinics in the UK and his take was - they need something to do, focus, purpose or they'll just not see the point and prefer to be home on the range thanks very much.

A trainer I went to in the UK (used to be an RA) also helped me discover and use 'intention' with my previous ridden horse (now retired) - initially I had to be amazed at something in the distance and really want to be there; that made the difference when my horse used to freeze on the spot. He'd pick up on my 'wow, we MUST go and check that out!' and that was enough to get him thinking forward.