Trouble
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 2,263
|
EPSM
Jan 3, 2010 22:33:15 GMT 1
Post by Trouble on Jan 3, 2010 22:33:15 GMT 1
Ok, ok, call me the biggest horsey hypochondriac in the world if you want to....lol
Obviously I've restarted my obsessive late night internet reading again in a deperate hope to get to the bottom of snip's problems...
One thing that keeps cropping up this time, that didn't before, is EPSM.
I know, or knew , nothing about it...but having read up on it, Snip is pretty much on the right diet if he was a sufferer, but that's not deliberate and I'm by no means sure that he's on the right diet for it!
I'm not saying I think he's got it, just that after my other thread and all the foot/leg/paces discussion, I'm beginning to wonder.
Seems to affect Draft and draft X horses (which he is)
Seems it can cause similar symptoms to the ulcers in as much as the reluctance to work, lack of energy, difficulty going up a gear when ridden etc - grumpy, bucking, blah blah.
Also mentions colic - surely if it can cause colic then it can cause ulcers?
Also cause uneven paces, difficulty picking up legs for farrier (I was explaining how he soes a weird snatching kick out with hind legs)
muscle tension - think we all know that Snip is the opitomy of tense!
'losing' back end or shivering. Something Snip often does is stumble with his hind legs and sort of mis step.
Ok, so could all be coincidental, something or nothing!
BUT, in previous summers he's been muzzled and has returned to top form.
This year I didn't muzzle him till later in the summer, and actually it was coincidental with when his behaviour improved (high sugars in the grass?)
In the winter the main bulk of his feed is Readigrass (or similar - a dried grass) and that's when his ulcers and behaviour flare up.
Cold is a bad thing, particularly on back/quarters - this years bad behaviour coincides with roughly when I full clipped him.
Anything in it do you think? Or am I actually turning into a nightmare horsey hypochondriac?
Honest but constructive answers welcomed! ;D
|
|
taffy
Novice Poster
Posts: 31
|
EPSM
Jan 4, 2010 1:02:54 GMT 1
Post by taffy on Jan 4, 2010 1:02:54 GMT 1
Hi Trouble,
I very, very rarely post but do read through the site every so often. For fear of sounding like a stalker, I followed your last thread with interest.
Our draft cross was just not right for ages, couldn't put my finger on it. We had behavior problems, lack of performance and lack of stamina to name but a few and, I feared the possibility of ulcers. Interestingly, it's just struck me, doh! That he also used to box walk before treatment but no longer does. After much reading and research, we treated him as if he had EPSM and he has improved dramatically. I nearly posted yesterday when I read that Snip had difficulty with the farrier. I thought then, could it be EPSM? As that was one of our guy’s first symptoms. He also feels the cold terribly despite being a hulk of a horse; his gait is affected and at his worst, made odd noises with his hind feet. I can only describe it as though he was wearing loose slippers (he's barefoot). Most of his symptoms were easily brushed aside as little quirks but looked at as a whole, it was a totally different picture. Apparently there are degrees of EPSM; they don't necessarily have to have the full on complaint, which sadly is not pleasant. We think our boy has it mildly.
The nutritionist at Feedmark helped me a great deal. It just happened that she was in the middle of researching the condition when I called for advice. For our boy, changing his feed and tweaking his management was all it needed. Worth a try, it won't do any harm.
|
|
|
EPSM
Jan 4, 2010 1:22:33 GMT 1
Post by peppertop on Jan 4, 2010 1:22:33 GMT 1
One of my clients horses has it and he certainly cannot tolerate rye grass, which i believe is what readigrass is.
|
|
|
EPSM
Jan 4, 2010 8:33:42 GMT 1
Post by troop on Jan 4, 2010 8:33:42 GMT 1
my mare ( friesian ) has it. depending where she is (different grass types) she can seem normal to stumbly gaits with odd hind action,reluctance to move, difficulty lifting hind legs and slamming them down if you let go of foot. on the right diet and with more excercise she is pretty much normal but with the cold weather she is feeling stiff. magnesium and endurance mix ( high oil selenium vit e ) feed seems to work miracles no rye grass and her large hilly summer pasture.ground work especially backing up and any lateral work helps to. equijewel if you can get it is good and i think sumo is suitable to....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
EPSM
Jan 4, 2010 8:51:05 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2010 8:51:05 GMT 1
Another of my clients has been looking into this, I'll give you her details if I haven't already. We thought he might have ulcers but he scoped clear. Very similar horse, lots of similarities in behaviour... pm on its way...
|
|
|
EPSM
Jan 4, 2010 9:26:34 GMT 1
Post by troop on Jan 4, 2010 9:26:34 GMT 1
im always open to any more info if anybody finds a good site etc x
|
|
appy
Elementary Poster
Posts: 88
|
EPSM
Jan 4, 2010 10:02:56 GMT 1
Post by appy on Jan 4, 2010 10:02:56 GMT 1
Hi - I'm another one who tends to lurk and not post but EPSM had also crossed my mind following your story. I have a quarter horse with EPSM and he had many of the same symptoms others have mentioned - stiff, tight muscles, difficulty moving forward, dragging his toes, difficulty holding hindlegs up, difficulty backing up, 'losing' his back end and also he would buck and find it hard to properly engage his hind end.
When he found it pretty much impossible to canter, he ended up at a vet hospital where he was tested for everything and all the results were clear. After this I did research and realised it could be EPSM. We switched his diet and the results were fantastic - now, provided I keep the oil up, keep him moving and pay attention to the little signs, he looks pretty much normal. He also hates the cold and wet!
Google Beth Valentine, her website is ruralheritage.net I think. There's tons of info there from signs and symptoms to the diet and a forum for discussions. She was really helpful when I emailed her directly.
My boys diet now is alpha a oil, outshine and linseed oil and when the grass is flush I soak his hay and rich grass + unsoaked hay = sore bunny. It does take a while for them to metabolise the oil but usually an EPSM horse put on oil will free up and if anything lose weight whilst others will gain.
I was talking with my vet on Saturday (yes, of course I had an out of hours call following a fence incident!) and she was saying that she rarely biopsies for the condition now which always used to be the gold standard for diagnosis since sometimes it doesn't show up even though the horse is showing all the signs. This is because it can be localised and also can be very subtle. So instead she treats based on symptoms using the high fat diet and has had a lot of success this way.
Good luck - I so hope that you get to the bottom of his discomfort, he's lucky to have such a caring, and tenacious, owner!
|
|
Trouble
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 2,263
|
EPSM
Jan 4, 2010 10:44:19 GMT 1
Post by Trouble on Jan 4, 2010 10:44:19 GMT 1
Liz - can't answer PM's from work, but have emailed you - it was your client who put me on this trail yesterday! This kept me awake all last night and it occurred to me that the ulcers appeared very suddenly in 2008 in the days following his first full clip, and hit us with a vengeance after a day at a competition where we got rained on for 5 hours and was freezing cold all day! The symptoms appeared this time in the days following his first full clip. He hates cold and wet and is the reason I gave up trying to keep him out 24/7 because he got so stressed at it. The basis of his feed is the Ryegrass - he gets 6-8 big round scoops of it throughout the day!!! (and I bought two bags of it yesterday! Arrrrgh!) I'm going to cut my losses with the food this month and buy it all again - sure as hell cheaper than Gastrogard. Also odd that he's been on Gastrogard this year, at a lower, but proven level, and still has the symptoms. Even at his fittest he always id struggle to engage his back end and was never strong behind, canter was his hardest gait. Wodering if the ulcers really were a red herring, he only had/has grade 2 so shouldn't, in theory, cause such intense problems....maybe it wasn't them bothering him at all!!! Which would really p!ss me off after spending 12 months and £6000 on curing them, but hey ho!!!
|
|
|
EPSM
Jan 4, 2010 12:26:10 GMT 1
Post by troop on Jan 4, 2010 12:26:10 GMT 1
hope you get to some sort of satisfactory conclusion typical about the bills isnt it.
|
|
|
EPSM
Jan 4, 2010 13:19:15 GMT 1
Post by mandal on Jan 4, 2010 13:19:15 GMT 1
The other thing to look into with readigrass is any/what preservatives are in it. I know Taklishim found her horse was sensitive to preservatives in one form of alfalfa, can't remember the details I'm afraid.
|
|