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Post by mandal on Jul 26, 2009 14:55:38 GMT 1
how much is laminaitus caused by lack of exercise compared with too much sugar? Is this feesable? Is it possible to have a calories in and out score ofr horses? I don't think it's that simple sadly geeup! Horses do need some calories, often it seems to be the type of calories that have the biggest negative effects... eg. many sugars or infact anything that affects the horses bowel/digestive system, keeping the correct balance of bowel flora or at least reducing the risk of harmful microbes (to the horses system) in the bowel proliferating seems to be very important. Mineral deficiency and imbalance seems to play a part too. I don't know anywhere near enough and certainly have to have research results tranlated for me. I suspect that the modern diet (high in sugars etc.) will turn out to be a major causal factor in Lami and many metabolic disorders too. Diabetes in humans is linked to high calories diet for eg. It makes sense to me that this constant dietry imbalance eventually pushes the horses body over into lami and or Cushings as it must have an effect on hormone levels and all body systems... Pete Ramey talks about horses with huge calorie intakes being skin and bone who when transferred to a basic hay diet put weight on as well as their coat and energy levels improving, food for thought imo.
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Post by geeup on Jul 26, 2009 17:01:37 GMT 1
Pete Ramey talks about horses with huge calorie intakes being skin and bone who when transferred to a basic hay diet put weight on as well as their coat and energy levels improving, food for thought imo.
sorry can you explain more.
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Post by lilaclomax on Jul 26, 2009 18:46:54 GMT 1
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Post by mandal on Jul 26, 2009 19:16:13 GMT 1
Pete Ramey talks about horses with huge calorie intakes being skin and bone who when transferred to a basic hay diet put weight on as well as their coat and energy levels improving, food for thought imo. sorry can you explain more. I'll try in my simple language! With the sugar overload the wrong gut flora are encouraged in massive amounts and then release toxins as they die off as well as other factors which unbalance digestion so the nutrients are not able to be utilized properly so the horse is basically starving. A high forage low sugar with correct mineral supplementation encourages the correct gut flora and functioning of the gut, reduces toxin release by die off of inappropriate bacteria (which were encouraged to grow by high sugars etc.) and so the whole body begins to function correctly and nutrients become available as the correct balance of gut flora is in place as well as reducted stress from varying levels of toxins and lack of essential nutrients. Hopefully someone will put me right if this is too simple and if it is incorrect. Sounds bad doesn't it! This is worst case scenarios though, often horses have problems due to dietry imbalance long term to varying degrees and I have a feeling we are just begining to become aware of some of these subtle signs. Taklishims story of her horse with great feet but had sudden character changes which she has discovered was due to grass sticks in my mind... I'm sure many will say some are looking for problems where there are none but at least we are getting pointers where to investigate and make changes when we do have problems. I'm going to shut up now!!
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Post by Yann on Jul 26, 2009 20:18:26 GMT 1
I suppose the answer to that question has to be 'it depends'. In general it's not as far as long term hoof health goes. But on the other hand if the horse can't be made comfortable by adjusting keep or diet, or is incapable of doing the work it's owned to do as a result, it may well be the lesser of two evils.
Sounds like there was as much of a problem with the farrier as the farriery there.
I'm not aware that any vet would recommend heart bars for LGL, you will be talking acute cases there, and I seriously doubt an acute case would ever trot up remotely sound during or after a crisis just because it had been shod. The shoes are there to stabilise the foot and the box rest is to prevent further damage to the laminae through excessive concussion or movement.
I would be surprised if shoes are ever found to be anything more than a compromise. That's certainly how I see them personally and pulling them for the off season will hopefully counterract the worst negative effects and keep them as healthy as possible in the circumstances.
What's the general view on whether LGL (as in pulses, heat in the coronet and digital cushion and footiness) and full blown laminitis are the same thing or not?
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Post by mandal on Jul 26, 2009 20:29:18 GMT 1
I suppose the answer to that question has to be 'it depends'. In general it's not as far as long term hoof health goes. But on the other hand if the horse can't be made comfortable by adjusting keep or diet, or is incapable of doing the work it's owned to do as a result, it may well be the lesser of two evils. That last sentence is a very fundamental question isn't it Yann. From where I'm sitting in my circumstances and my current beliefs it's a step I'd find hard to make but I would if there really was no other way for the horse to be comfortable at all. I'm lucky enough to be able to say work doesn't come into this decision for me. I believe with my 'pigeon' knowledge that LGL is Laminitis. Also many horses have 'sinkers' where the pedal bone has dropped rather than tipping/rotating and often this seems to go unrecognised as laminitis from what I've learned.
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Sam C
Olympic Poster
Posts: 737
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Post by Sam C on Jul 27, 2009 13:32:03 GMT 1
What's the general view on whether LGL (as in pulses, heat in the coronet and digital cushion and footiness) and full blown laminitis are the same thing or not? That's a difficult one! I'm pretty sure they both have the same list of causes/triggers, and obviously as the name suggests, LGL shows the same symptoms/effects in the feet as full blown laminitis but at a much more subtle level - but then there are a lot of horses who suffer from LGL yet never go on to get full blown acute laminitis, so I guess it is possible that there are differences in the process, I'm just not sure what!
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