Best method for PTS please? Shoot or injection?

[natalia]

I would go for gun everytime given the choice. I have been with 4 done by injection and although 3 of them were already down and deff ready to go (two emergency rescue cases with the ILPH present and another old pony with bad colic) i just think there's too much fiddling about and it all takes to long. i would be have been happier in all situations if it were more instant. The other by injection was sedated first and then done in the indoor school, again, it was heartbreaking having to have him doped up and led round to the spot, it just seemed to prolong the whole process. On the other hand the one done by our local knacker with the gun have been quick, and very proff. He's a lovely chap and we always give him a cup of tea after. The last one he did was an old horse in the summer and he seemed just as upset as we were! I would now always use him, esp if it were my horse, not a livery. The blood isn't actually too bad, and less than you think there would be. One of the local blokes always asks for a bag, but the other one is less fussed. agreed as well about the dumping on toxins, interestingly theres a spot in a field localy that an old pony is buried under, he was injected and buried there about 4 years ago now, and the spot is funny as the grass just won't seem to grow on top properly, maybe this is just coincidence, but it seems odd to me, and you can always pick out the exact spot, even in mid summer.

[marianne]

Caroline, does your friend's horse have any buddies? Just wanted to say - above and beyond how the horse goes to rainbow bridge - that it's always good for any 'friends' to see the body afterwards so they understand their friend has gone.
xxx

[montana21sky]

Just wondering with lethal injection, what is it that kills the horse? I have been told that it's just a huge dose of sedative; does it stop the heart?? Also, what is the purpose of sedating beforehand with this method? Re. OP, the only experience I've had is with shooting. Horse had a horribly broken leg and it was imperative that he went quickly.

Sympathy to both horse and owner x

[graymare]

I appareciate this is a gruesome question - I apologise in advance - for those horse who are shot, is the owner allowed to stay with their horse? Mine would worry if I wasnt, and I'd want to be with her.

[morwenstowstud]

I know this may sound callous but when the time comes for any of mine be it from old age, accident or illness, it will be the bullet then the local hunt. At leastv that way something gets a good meal. Harsh I know but to me dead is dead by whatever method.

[gnasherboy]

I've had two of mine pts. the 1st one by bullet, i felt this was best for her as she was a feisty and fairly young mare who needed lots of sedation when she she ever needed vet treatment. Again stories of horses fighting the injection led my decison. i was 16 at the time and i stayed with her although the second vet actually held her for me. I can honestly say even at that young age the deed was less upsetting than the build up to it. There was not much blood she fell straight away. I did insist it was done in the field and not on the concrete yard which the vet wanted. Although i doubt it would of made any difference as I'm sure with this method they are dead before they hit the floor. My old childhood pony was pts by injection, again i thought this was the best method for her and the most peacefull. With her i knew she was 'ready to go' and she was also a little head shy, factors which helped with my decision. Again i stood with her and she went very peacefully. However for me watching the syringe go down was quite traumatic as the 2 or 3 seconds it took gave my mind time to wonder on whether i was doing the right thing, as with a bullet it is over with before you have time to self doubt.

I hope this helps although as others have said it is a very personal decision and there is no right or wrong way, just what is best for you and your horse.

[tomrabbit]

Upsetting thread, but thanks for posting it. My boy is only 6, and I hope this decision is long way in the future, but I hadn't ever given it a moment's thought. Now I have, I will be in a better position to make a decision when the time comes.

[breezy]

This is a grim thread, but one that is very useful - also knowing your local hunt or knacker man (whatever is around) or which cremeation services come to you is very useful to have to hand in the case of an emergency.

I had my 35 yo gelding pts Aug 07, he even named the date, it was entirely peaceful, the vet filled the syringe at the car, and we walked to the hole in the ground - I was stuffing his face with treats and the vet slid the needle into his jugular vein - he twitched very slightly but was distracted by the treats. The vet put his thumb on the vein above the needle and pressed hard - he then pushed the drug in, then took his thumb off, Fizz stiffened up and fell over sideways - totally dead. The vet then listened to his heart, said he was dead, waited for a few more minutes and then listened again. They (my parents were there to help) all left me alone with him so I could say my goodbyes. I wasn't as long as I thought I would be as he was so gone - and then he started to go cold and I hated that. I plaited bits of his mane and tail and cut them off to take with me. When I walked back up the lane I could feel him galloping along in the field next to me, happy and free from his failing body.

Later my men folk rolled his body into the hole and another friend covered him up.

I don't like putting the toxin's into the ground, but we did dig a very deep hole, there is a low water table and no stream within distance. We buried him as we could, it was the easiest route given that the nearest cremation place would have been prohibitive in cost. The local huntsman was in prison at the time, and the next local one I wasn't having near my wee man. I'd watched him shoot a horse in the next field (such a nice thing to see on a sunny day...) and I was disgusted with his attitude to the horse, booting it in the stomach to check it was dead!!! Thus, I actually left my vet to decide which method he wanted to use, he's a very very experienced horse vet, and I wouldn't have wanted a less experienced one. He was wonderfully compassionate without being cloying either.

He commented that he wished he put more horses in Fizz's condition down - bizzare as that sounds, Fizz was gleaming with health (he wasn't healthy though, not really) fat and perky - he said people wait too long.

I did end up with the scene of Fizz dying stuck in my head - he was the first of mine (still the only, please god) I'd had to say goodbye to. I found that EFT helped me a lot. I didn't let Fizz see any tears, but he knew I would miss him. If you think you are going to be hysterical during the act, get a steady friend or assistant to hold the horse, they don't need to be stressed by their person's emotions as well.

Bx

[kristine]

Feb 9, 2009 23:37:58 GMT 1 breezy said:

The local huntsman was in prison at the time, and the next local one I wasn't having near my wee man. I'd watched him shoot a horse in the next field (such a nice thing to see on a sunny day...) and I was disgusted with his attitude to the horse, booting it in the stomach to check it was dead!!!
Bx

Another gruesome thing I learned through years of hunting and euthanising horses was to determine when they are truly dead. We don't always have stethoscope or vet near. A sure method it to tap the eyeball lightly. When the blink reflex is shut down, so is the brain. Kicking them in the neck isn't acceptable.

It is a horrific subject, but one we need to be familiar with as horse people. If you haven't run into a situation like this... you will.

[Amanda Seater]

mine apart from one have been shot.
I would choose shooting. I chose a cremation service that came over - the man was soo sweet. he came with his own plastic bag!
When he took the one that was injected away I requested a bit of mane to keep( and sadly a hoof for disection due to condition....) the mane came in a small box washed and plaited with a lovely poem in a sympathy card!

Some companies really take care . but for me - shoot and I always want to check that they are dead. I don't need to be around and upset near the horse it is not fair that they have to deal with my emotion. I would ratehr them go interested in tis new person , not wondering why I am down.

[tomrabbit]

Been thinking a bit more about this thread. Don't want to start a new thread on such a miserable subject, but can someone tell me, can you be right next to your horse right to the end when they shoot? Before reading all this, I kind of assumed that injection would be preferable, but now I'm less sure.
Also, if the injection is a lethal dose of anaesthetic, then presumably the 'fighting' it also happens if the horse is being anaesthetised for an operation? It is awful if you think of it as the horse resisting death, but I guess it is just his natural instinct not to go down.

[touchstone]

Hi tomrabbit, I haven't put any of my own down yet, but have stayed with others horses when they have been shot. In each case I was allowed to be beside the horse, say my goodbyes and give a treat, then usually the knackerman or vet takes the rope just before shooting, at which point the horse probably hasn't even noticed that you aren't holding them. I prefer to look away at the actual moment and within a fraction of a second the horse is gone.

[hettie]

The lethal injection many vets use is a drug called Pentobarbitone, the vet I worked for said it was like a massive overdose of anaesthetic. In an animal with good circulation it stops the heart within seconds.
It is the same drug that is used in the "dignitas" suicide clinic, where it is drunk by the person wishing to kill themselves. Some depressed vets have committed suicide by putting a drip in their arm with this drug in the drip bag.
Vets often use a sedative first if the animal is nervous as if they move when trying to inject the lethal drug they can blow the vein and upset the animal.
I think this drug works very well in small animals such as dogs and cats, but due to the vast amount of the drug needed for a horse it sometimes doesnt go as well as it could. When it goes well it is a very peaceful end.

[lawyerbunny]

I haven't any experience of my own to bring to this thread, which I'm very lucky to be able to say, but just wanted to thank everyone who has contributed to it with their own experiences. It's very brave of you to think back as you have done, to help someone else. It's something we're all going to have to face one day or another, and it has helped me to think about that day, when it comes, with less fear.
Hope you don't mind me interrupting thread to say so, OP.
xx

[donkeydude]

My personal preference is to shoot, as I have had done in the past. Each horse needs to be assessed really.
I think there is very little can be said following Varkie's first post.
It is a very sad time for your friend, she has made a brave decision, but the correct decision. I know you will also be upset, but she needs your support right now