|
Post by gem on Feb 8, 2009 22:31:47 GMT 1
think varkie has offered sound advice - an owner needs to be happy with the method, fraid i dont agree with julz either a horse fighting the injection isnt at all to do with whether a horse is ready or not
|
|
|
Post by julz on Feb 8, 2009 22:36:47 GMT 1
doesnt matter if anyone agrees with me or not... I knew Oldie, and I beleive he was ready to go.... That brings comfort to me and his owner..... if that isnt what others believe, well that is entirely up to you. It doesnt mean Im wrong... after all on this DG isnt what listening to the horse is what it's all about?
|
|
kt
Intermediate Poster
Banned Member
Posts: 185
|
Post by kt on Feb 8, 2009 22:50:28 GMT 1
tbh both methods are equally as good with horror stories from both etc. Does she plan to be there for the action? What does she plan to do with the body after?
|
|
|
Post by lmao on Feb 8, 2009 23:16:38 GMT 1
no experiance but on loan horses i was always told if anything happened to get them shot for the reasons you mentioned caroline.but for my own i think i'd have injection if i was to be there.prefer the idea of a silent death then a big bang
|
|
Caroline
Grand Prix Poster
Intermediate Poster
Posts: 2,277
|
Post by Caroline on Feb 9, 2009 0:06:11 GMT 1
Many thanks for the replies, I will print this thread off and give it to her tomorrow. I don't think she has decided yet whether to be present when it happens - it's a very difficult thing for her to do either way obviously She intends to send his body for cremation. I think it will happen in a field - not sure what practical issues are associated with that. Is there always a lot of blood from shooting? Would it soak into grass? Grizzly questions to have to ask I know. Many thanks to all who have shared difficult memories.
|
|
laura
Grand Prix Poster
going for a splash
Posts: 3,867
|
Post by laura on Feb 9, 2009 2:16:30 GMT 1
you will probably need access for a reasonable sized vehicle to take remains ..... and be aware that there may be drag marks associated with that which you wont have on hard standing. With Beauty that was what I found hard afterwards (even though was not PTS but dropped and died in the field)
It may be grizzly to ask questions ...... but sometimes its better to be prepared for things that might happen so that your friend can be prepared for these eventualities (and perhaps not get as distressed should cetain things happen ). It is a hard thing to balance because some things might NOT happen so she might never need to know.
Its like muscle twiching after the heart and respiration has stopped ..... its just that the reflexes are giving last firings. Also there might be a "gasp" as the horse is moved ...... its not alive / rebreathing, its the change in position expelling air from the lungs. This sort of thing happens with humans too.
I dont know if you have discussed momentos yet ........... iwth both my friends I took a bit of mane and tail for them( with previous permission ..... one wanted it straight away, the other was not sure if she wanted or not and I kept it till she decided.
With Beauty I had not been there and had to go to the kennels to get a bit of her tail myself because no one ( they had all been in shock too) had taken one for me. Not everyone likes to keep such a thing ..... but its maybe worth mentioning if you have not already.
Whatever your friend decides just help her look forward no matter how it goes ....because she will have made her decision for the benefit of her horse and what she believes is the best method for them............ no recriminations to be allowed from others around or to herself !
|
|
|
Post by touchstone on Feb 9, 2009 10:00:26 GMT 1
As regards the mess following shooting, if you have as bin bag at the ready the knackerman can put this over the horses head afterwards which collects the blood and so saves the mess.
If a vet is doing the job I'd go with the method he is most comfortable with as this is the one he's probably better at.
I think the veteran horse society has info on putting to sleep that might be worth a look.
I hope all goes well, it is the day we all dread. xxxxx
|
|
|
Post by gwenoakes on Feb 9, 2009 10:07:03 GMT 1
We have helped two on their way to Rainbow Bridge and both were shot. Neither were very old, but had BIG probs. Both were very, very quick and had gone to Rainbow Bridge before they hit the floor and not much blood. Both done by different vets. We were right next to both of them as they went. None of this keep out of the way because of health and safety. Not a nice experience but unfortunately a necessity to save more suffering. Both times I insisted that they were TOTALLY doped up before the deed was done. Clare has been with a horse that the owner took the injection route and according to her experience, it was not very pleasant or quick. Like has been said though it depends on the horse, the owner and the general situation. Hugs to your friend. XXX
MTA - Now that is something I couldnt even contemplate Touchstone. Dont know why and not saying it is wrong, but definitely not for me.
|
|
hettie
Intermediate Poster
Posts: 229
|
Post by hettie on Feb 9, 2009 10:20:06 GMT 1
I would add that if she decides to go with the lethal injection, make sure the vet is an experienced vet, I have known problems with young inexpereinced vets who miss the vein which can prolong the event. Also the lethal injection given to a very ill horse also takes longer to work sometimes if the horse has poor circulation.
|
|
|
Post by Booze Fish on Feb 9, 2009 10:56:22 GMT 1
Our mare was shot is nasty circumstances - our gelding had playfully kicked out in the field while they were messing around, caught her femur and totally smashed it. She was in agony and it needed to be quick. We had to restrain her whilst we were waiting for the vet as she was trying to get up but obviously couldnt. Thats not nice to watch, I wasnt allowed to be around when the vet arrived, as I was only about 10, I was walking away as I heard the shot. I would like to think that when Oscars time comes, as he is extremely good with the vet, he will be doped up to the eyeballs to pass peacefully by lethal injection and I will be right by his side. I know its not the same, I have seen my very old dog put to sleep by injection, it was all very peaceful, and yes there is twitching and 'breathing' which is just a reflex, but it ment (selfishly) that we could still say goodbye - it wasnt so final if that makes sense.
I hope that your friend comes to a conclusion that is good for her and her bobbo.
(((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))))
xXx
MTA: I would second the advice about an older, more experienced person for either method. It needs to be a peaceful, no fuss, quick affair which seomtimes doesnt happen with younger inexperienced people.
|
|
eden
Olympic Poster
Posts: 662
|
Post by eden on Feb 9, 2009 11:04:50 GMT 1
I would have mine shot at home.
|
|
lynn
Olympic Poster
Posts: 502
|
Post by lynn on Feb 9, 2009 11:12:04 GMT 1
It is a personal thing I agree, but I had our oldie PTS with the injection purely because I wanted to be with him until the very end and I couldn't actually stand the thought of the horse being shot.
We also allowed my other horse to watch from her stable and it seemed to actually help her when he was no longer there, she didn't seem too distressed
|
|
|
Post by touchstone on Feb 9, 2009 11:37:27 GMT 1
Hiya Gwen, you mean the bin bag? I know it seems a bit macabre, but the knackerman that came to us wouldn't do it without one, and I have to say it did make a difference to the clearing up, which is never nice. I think as long as I could check that they were definitely gone it doesn't bother me what happens afterwards, but it might be worth just having one to hand in case the person doing the job asks for one - we were running round trying to find one in a bit of a tiz, and to be honest there are other things that you need to be focusing on at the time and forewarned is forearmed as they say.
|
|
|
Post by peppertop on Feb 9, 2009 13:03:06 GMT 1
Not a nice subject but one we should think about so we are prepared. We have had 3 put to sleep over last year all by injection. My old pony had quite a reaction to it and took a little while to go. She did "fight" it I think but the main reason is when they are old or something is effecting their circulation the drug doesn't get round quick enough so its not instant. She was definately ready to go, I'd had her 20 years and knew her inside out and she'd had enough.She was a fighter all her life but I'm not convinced she fought the drug it just didn't work quick enough. The vet didn't sedate her first and didn't put a catheter in her neck so was fiddling around a bit. It wasn't a nice experience in a way but was quiet and i talked to her till the end, in fact I told her she could bugger off now!The second one was sedated and had a catheter in so the whole dose is given in one and there is no fiddling around getting a needle in. She was gone before she hit the floor. The third had no sedation as vet refused and made me read lethal injection box which said sedating can interfere with the drug. He did use a catheter and again it was quick. I would now have had my pony shot, but it would definatley depend on circumstances as to others. I think I would personally find shooting harder but that factor wouldn't come into when deciding what was best for my horses. I have had one done in the past but we weren't there, never again as we had no closure and was really hard to get over. I will always be with my horses when they go. (althoug they do know they all have to be Peter Pan and live forever!)
|
|
|
Post by kristine on Feb 9, 2009 13:17:17 GMT 1
I am trained to shoot horses... and have done it many times.
A proper shot will have the horse dead before it hits the ground. IMO, it doesn't see, hear, or feel anything if done correctly.
The gruesome, graphic part belongs to us alone. Its violent, loud, can be messy, but only to us... whatever made that horse who he was is already gone.
Another point, which I believe is huge, is that when PTS chemically, you are dumping toxic chemicals into the environment that DON'T go away. If the horse is buried or burned, you are still putting alot of toxins into the environment, if the carcass remains above ground, any animal that gets into it (wildlife, pets) WILL DIE.
Its a horrible decision to make... I hope everyone involved finds some Peace with it.
|
|