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Post by Kelly Marks on Jan 13, 2009 20:56:57 GMT 1
Hi
When Monty is over in February one of our first stops is going to be at Hartpury College for clinical trials on Join Up and possibly the Dually Halter. The methodology will be overseen by Dr Veronica Fowler and Dr David Marlin and possibly involve some Hartpury professors too - exciting stuff!
We are looking for some more youngsters to use in the study - the effects of Join Up versus Lungeing (plan A will then involve them being led over an obstacle course afterwards to see which horses perform best).
The ideal young horse would be halter broken and not be stressed by the travel to Hartpury (we can organise stabling for him). We would need for him to be able to wear a heart rate monitor but that shouldn't be overally difficult even if they've never worn a rug or anything.
Please could you contact the ih.office@virgin.net if you think you have a suitable candidate. The tests will be on Thursday 5th February (possibly some on the 6th as well but not definite).
Many thanks for your help as ever and of course you will be most welcome to stay and hang out for the day.
Kelly
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Post by mags on Jan 13, 2009 21:01:32 GMT 1
Is it ok to make a comment on the trial? Im curious as to why join up versus lunging? Surely they have completely different objectives
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Post by Kelly Marks on Jan 13, 2009 21:06:09 GMT 1
Sure - it's really helpful to have comments/questions so we explain and think things through to best effect! This is so if someone said, say 'Join Up doesn't have any effect' or 'Join Up is just about wearing the horse out' you could compare the effects of simply lungeing a horse with the effects of Join Up for identical times and make comparisons.
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potto
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Post by potto on Jan 13, 2009 23:44:02 GMT 1
Could you tell me what age range? How many you need? Any particular heights?
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Post by amelia on Jan 14, 2009 11:24:47 GMT 1
Is 2 (rising 3) too young?
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Post by amarche on Jan 14, 2009 13:20:04 GMT 1
can I ask a question/comment too please?
I was always under the impression that Join up wasn't particularly comparable to lungeing and that it was more longlining compared to lungeing?
My reasoning would be that should an owner chose to use Join Up then they wouldn't do this everyday whereas an owner may well chose to lunge everyday for fitness/schooling etc.
or is the study purely comparing the first stages of starting/backing a horse? so join up vs traditional lunging in the sense of getting the horse listening & preparing for riding education?
I dont think I've explained my question very well - lol!
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Post by amelia on Jan 14, 2009 13:27:25 GMT 1
I understand you Amarche lol! I think it's the latter, i.e the preparation of a young horse ready for backing, join-up vs. traditional. What better prepares the young horse for further education. Might be wrong though (I usually am!).
Really hope that Sparks is suitable and gets picked :-)
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Caz
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Post by Caz on Jan 14, 2009 13:47:25 GMT 1
I too am a little confused about the aim of the trial.
Is the point is to compare heart rate of a horse lunged to that of a horse in join up? Or is it to see what makes a horse more willing to do the obsacle course after the 'exercise'.
How is the performance over the obstacle course going to be measured?
Each horse will react in different ways to different obstacles, but if the same horse goes round the obstacle course twice surely the second time should show 'improvement' on the first?
Also the heart rate during exercise, if join up heart rate is to be compared to lunging heart rate, then the lunging should be done properly & with a purpose, ie not just a horse running in circles (a lunge line may be attached but thats not really lunging).
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Post by Catrin on Jan 14, 2009 14:30:32 GMT 1
I read it as Null Hypothesis: 'When moving on a circle, Join-Up causes the unworked horse more stress than lungeing.'
Test: Move the horse, equipped with a heart monitor around as in a normal J-U or lungeing session. Measure heart rate during each. Lead horse over obstacle course after J-U and lungeing, measure heart rate.
Analysis: Apply significance test to data.
Conclusion: If heart rate lower, at predetermined significance level, during J-U than during lungeing, disprove Null Hypothesis and state that Join–Up is less stressful than lungeing for young horses.
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Caz
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Post by Caz on Jan 14, 2009 14:43:22 GMT 1
But then its getting back to the lungeing debate again.
If something is being called lungeing then it should be lungeing that is done as a skill not a horse running in circles.
Maybe join up should be compared to long lining, long reining, lungeing & free schooling?
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Post by Kelly Marks on Jan 14, 2009 19:32:27 GMT 1
Hi
Well I must admit Dr Fowler said it should be compared to long lining but if they are unstarted horses I was concerned that may be unfair because the line behind their quarters may raise their heart rate whereas more conventional lungeing wouldn't have anything additional touching their body hmmm...
Hi Amela
Rising 3 sounds fine - she's not going to be ridden after all. Thank you for contacting the office and we'll get back to you within a week or so (sorry not sooner - just so much to organise with this)
Kelly
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Post by june on Jan 14, 2009 20:13:18 GMT 1
If the test is to measure the effect of join up on behaviour over obstacles then why compare it to anything else? Surely it should be join up, test over obstacles, versus nothing, test over obstacles.
I guess it depends on whether you want to answer the question "is join up more effective than lunging in altering behaviour over obstacles" or the question "does join up alter behaviour over obstacles".
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Post by amelia on Jan 14, 2009 22:09:25 GMT 1
Hi Well I must admit Dr Fowler said it should be compared to long lining but if they are unstarted horses I was concerned that may be unfair because the line behind their quarters may raise their heart rate whereas more conventional lungeing wouldn't have anything additional touching their body hmmm... Hi Amela Rising 3 sounds fine - she's not going to be ridden after all. Thank you for contacting the office and we'll get back to you within a week or so (sorry not sooner - just so much to organise with this) Kelly Thanks Kelly ;D Well Sparks would be happy with whatever - he's well used to having random things draped all over him and he's had long reins around his bum before - in fact he loves having things touching his bum - he's a complete perve   |
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Post by Sue Palmer on Jan 16, 2009 18:17:40 GMT 1
Catrin - love the scientific approach - don't suppose you (or anyone else) have any knowledge of how to do the 'apply significance test to data'?! I have some data that I have collected from my MSc study on the Equine Touch technique, but not a clue of how to make anything of it - was thinking of looking for an online stats company!
Sue
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colin
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Post by colin on Jan 16, 2009 18:26:45 GMT 1
Question: why a compraision study?
is Join up not more suited to an observational study in its own right?
Im not sure that you will learn more about the useful or not of join up by comparing it with other things
Are you really trying to explain it, or understand it?
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