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Post by Lisa in Plymouth on Jan 2, 2009 20:43:57 GMT 1
Didn't want to hijack Melissa's thread and go off topic so thought i'd start a new one.
SS3 - I was interested to read how similar your thoughts on foal nutrition were to those my mum had taught me. It was always a matter of getting the nutrition right and then everything else should really fall into place. If there was a problem diet was always looked at first. I was visiting a friend at her livery yard yesterday and was shocked at the amount of people adding feed balancers (Equilibra/Blue Chip) to what already looked like the biggest mismash of feed going for youngsters.
Have you ever had need for these products?
My mum was given a bag once by a local rep (when it had just come on the market) and we noticed no difference in topline and condition on a two year old that had previously been on a stud mix.
I have always started with one of the Dengie feeds (Alfa A for babies and Hi Fi or Hi Fi Lite for adults) as a base and then added a suitable mix or pellet, if required.
We used top spec balancer once on a pair of very poor weanlings (4 and 5 months) because they wouldn't eat hard feed for months so we had to use unmollased sugar beet, top spec and mushed up marley.
All comments welcome
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Post by arabheaven on Jan 2, 2009 20:53:06 GMT 1
As a baby, Zac was on Alfa A and stud mix and that did him fine. Ori came to me in a state as a yearling and apparently wouldnt eat anything  but she quite ahppily wolfs down her feed. Since she arrived as a yearling and up to now as a 2 and a half year old, she has been fed fast fibre and dengie hi fi to give her the fibre she needs and I supplement with NAF pink powder for vits and minerals. She looks fantastic on it and I now begrudge feeding cereals to any of mine so am much happier with the fibre diet  |
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Jenna
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Post by Jenna on Jan 2, 2009 21:00:47 GMT 1
I would be really interested to hear people's thoughts on this.
When I first had Kira (at 8 months old) I knew that overfeeding was just as bad as underfeeding, and she simply had Dengie Hi Fi with a stud mix added. (And she seems to have turned out OK!)
Since then, however, I've tried to cut out feeds with cereals and neither she nor Lui get any 'mix' - they have Dengie Hi Fi, a multi vit supplement, and some speedibeet.
However, I've now taken on an 8 month old foal and I'm wondering if she needs a stud mix or whether she'd do fine on what I'm feeding the other two? Does she NEED something else that is in the stud mixes?
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Post by june on Jan 2, 2009 21:09:37 GMT 1
Our lot were on Alfa A Lite and Top Spec balancer. They nicked it out of mums' bowls to start with. They are 3 now and seem to have done pretty well on it. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the long term effects are!
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varkie
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Post by varkie on Jan 2, 2009 21:10:51 GMT 1
Personally I think the feed balancers are way better than most of the feeds on the market. Since we moved ours onto feed balancers, they have never looked better, or been in better health. You can buy feed balancers suitable for stud stock, i.e. youngsters, broodies etc.
I think the problem is more that people just add too much stuff, and need to keep it more simple. I see people adding a base fibre (chaff or alfalfa), then they add sugarbeet, then a feed balancer, then a mix, then a condition feed, then a couple of supplements etc etc.
We find that ours are just on a feed balancer all year round, with speedibeet & either a condition cube or a fibre cube added as an extra if they need more nutrition or bulk. My only supplements are extra linseed for showring shine, and electrosalts in the summer.
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Post by specialsparkle3 on Jan 2, 2009 21:11:31 GMT 1
 Well as I said, I now swear by D&H products for my breeding stock. If I am able to feed at least the lowest recommended amount ( and that is what is so good about their foal mix, because the vit and min levels are concentrated so you don't need to over face a foal) I have not found it necessary to add anything. If, however, for any reason I had to, I would only use D&H Surelimb as a top up, which is designed for that purpose. If I were using any proprietary brand of mix though I would not then start adding a plethora of additives, as any mix is supposed to be nutritionally balanced for the purpose, and adding things could cause an inbalance, which in adult horses may not be such a "big thing" but in foals and youngstock, could well be damaging. I too base all my feeds on Alfa A or Hi Fi Lite. So my mares in foal would have A A with a vit and min supplement ( Formula 4 Feet or Surelimb ) until 3 months before foaling, then I would feed A A and Mare and Youngstock Mix ---------or Stud diet depending on their needs condition wise. Foals have A A and Foal Mix until they are a year old, then change to mare and Youngstock mix as yearlings until they go out. By the time they are rising two, they never normally need more than straight AA if they need weight kept on ,or Hi Fi Lite if they are fat plus their one supplement.
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Post by Lisa in Plymouth on Jan 2, 2009 21:17:18 GMT 1
Thanx for your replies.
I'm more than happy to have horses (in light to moderate work) that are turned out for at least 12 hours a day on Hi Fi mixed with water/unmollassed sugar beet and no cereal because in my experience I have found that if the grazing is good quality (and also the hay/haylage) then a fibre based diet can be perfectly fine. It does differ from horse to horse though and I wouldn't hesitate to add cereal based mix/pellet if the horse needs it.
Jenna - I've never had foal/younster that we haven't fed a stud mix/cereal to so can't really say how well your foal will/won't do without it but i'd change the Hi Fi to Alfa A. I don't think you can go wrong with feeding a good quality stud mix and Alfa A to any foal. The problems with so many youngsters these days is overfeeding on immature joints. As long as you feed the required amount of mix for their nutritional/growth requirements you can always increase/decrease the amount of Alfa A for weight control.
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Post by specialsparkle3 on Jan 2, 2009 21:25:01 GMT 1
Jenna - I've never had foal/younster that we haven't fed a stud mix/cereal to so can't really say how well your foal will/won't do without it but i'd change the Hi Fi to Alfa A. I don't think you can go wrong with feeding a good quality stud mix and Alfa A to any foal. The problems with so many youngsters these days is overfeeding on immature joints. As long as you feed the required amount of mix for their nutritional/growth requirements you can always increase/decrease the amount of Alfa A for weight control. I absolutely agree with that Lisa |
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Post by Lisa in Plymouth on Jan 2, 2009 21:26:19 GMT 1
To those who feed Alfa A (my fatties are mainly Hi Fi Liters!) do they still do plain Alfa A or does it always have Soya Oil added now?
Varkie/SS3 - Your comments about adding too much stuff and altering what was nutritionally balanced are exactlt what I was thinking. At the livery yard I visited yesterday there was one girl who combined 7 things to make her horses evening feed - this must have totally unbalanced whatever the mix was that she had to start with. I always try to keep things simple and assess each horse depending on age/workload and how they look stood up infront of you, sometimes a bit of tweaking with what you already have is all it needs rather than 5 new miracle feed products.
What is Surelimb? Not heard of it before.
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Post by specialsparkle3 on Jan 2, 2009 21:34:36 GMT 1
Surelimb is a supplement made by D & H which as I said can be used as a supplement with straights or in addition to their stud mixes if you are unable to feed enough to ensure the full vitamins and minerals necessary are consumed.
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Post by Emily+Meg on Jan 2, 2009 21:42:29 GMT 1
Abbie is eating alfa a with d+h foal mix and seems to be doing very well on it, Meg has alfa a, sugarbeet and d+h stud diet and is looking good as well so I like those feeds. I will post some pics soon as well, promise |
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Post by june on Jan 2, 2009 22:17:52 GMT 1
Alfa A comes either as Alfa A which is slightly molassed, Alfa A Lite which is lower calorie and less molassed and Alfa Oil which has oil added.
I see Top Spec have now introduced a stud balancer to their range. I've got to give them a call to get the Top Spec Lite spec so I'll ask for the spec for that one too and see how it compares to the balancer.
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but she quite ahppily wolfs down her feed. Since she arrived as a yearling and up to now as a 2 and a half year old, she has been fed fast fibre and dengie hi fi to give her the fibre she needs and I supplement with NAF pink powder for vits and minerals. She looks fantastic on it and I now begrudge feeding cereals to any of mine so am much happier with the fibre diet 
Well as I said, I now swear by D&H products for my breeding stock. If I am able to feed at least the lowest recommended amount ( and that is what is so good about their foal mix, because the vit and min levels are concentrated so you don't need to over face a foal) I have not found it necessary to add anything. If, however, for any reason I had to, I would only use D&H Surelimb as a top up, which is designed for that purpose. 
