Starting a young horse

[LMuirEDT]

are you suggesting all horses started before 6/7 years old have 'worn out' early? I beg to differ... id like to see ur evidence of this

im all for informed decisions but people dont think for themselves when evidence like this comes along, they take it on face value, Ive read many a 'study' which is totally flawed!!!

[misty]

We did lots of walking in hand, just like taking a dog for a walk, showing the sites, meeting people, tractors, cars, tankers, letting the horse stop and investigate. Then with a saddle, then with long lines and her first proper hack was on the way back from one of her 'walks' Although the walks were nearly daily the whole process (we got her at three) took about 18 months.

[varkie]

Hmmm, I'm not sure that being aware of that piece of info means that we should never back before 6/7, and I think the number of people who wait until that age are in the serious minority.

However, I do think it means that we should take the info into account when we do decide to start our youngsters - obviously the stronger they are, the better for them physically. However like all things, it has to be balanced off against the individual horses needs i.e. mental, plus those of the owner. It is a real balancing act. However, just because we don't wait until they are 6/7 to start them, doesn't mean that it's ok to do it when they are 2!!!

There are some great articles on bone plates & their final growth, and they can really inform us as owners, and allow us to make great decisions.

Long reining does NOT require starting on a circle, not sure where that idea comes from. I start horses regularly on long reins, and we NEVER start them on the circle.

I am inclined to agree tho, that sending a young horse repeatedly round & round in a round pen will be no better for a young horse than being lunged - but then I would imagine that most people who are anti lungeing young horses will also be anti sending young horses round & round in a round pen.

By & large, I don't think quoting this info is about being self righteous, but rather concerned about a young horse doing too much, too young.

However, I do think people should always look carefully at any study presented to them, and see who wrote it, why, and with what bias (if any).

OP - in your friends position, I would not do any lungeing before 3 years old for sure. At 3 years old, I would consider doing a few minutes several times a week, in walk, with just a few strides of trot, on very large circles, and on the large track. Even the following year, at 4 years, I would be very careful of the work levels asked, especially on the lunge, which is hard work for a horse. At 2 years, not only would I not lunge, I'd also be wary of long reining. At 2 years old, I'd stick with inhand work - and not inhand outline work either, but working at feet work, hazard awareness, and general life preparation.

When it does come to backing & bringing on, if you don't have an experienced friend to help you, I would seriously suggest bringing an instructor in regularly to help you & keep you on track.

[Zoe RA]

That is an interesting observation Loza, and does slightly contradict your post a couple of months back were you applauded the posters on this board for being free thinking and actually understanding what they are talk about on here.

Could you please tell us why you think it acceptable to back horse at an age where growth plates are still forming, and why you are so adamant that you think we are in the wrong for believing it best to leave horses to mature?

Personally, I have lightly backed (sat on) horses at the back end of thier third year, and wouldn't dream of doing anything other than very light hacking (strait lines, no jumping etc) in the fourth year. And I do feel a bit guilty about that sometimes.

I would never back a horse at two.

[LMuirEDT]

very balanced point of view there varkie, i respect ur ideas and views, not many people are that open minded, i didnt mean that long reining has to involve cirle work but u can incorpoate it in without realising (
eg changing rein and stuff), many people will end up doing small circles (prob smaller than they would usually lunge) but feel it's ok cos they have 2 lines, im speaking from experience of working at many different yards

[LMuirEDT]

my point Zoe is each horse is an indivdiual and each case is different, u cant blanket case every horse,

the majority of times people are free thinking but to jump on this person and say absolutly no lunging whatsoever is a bit extreme. daggers out for anyone who lunges!

[eileen]

Exactly loza, that is why it is best to get someone experienced to teach long lining, to avoid the very thing you have said! I thought the damage with lunging is done because the head is pulled round with one line, that doesnt happen if a horse is going round in a round pen loose, but of course as Zoe has said, nobody would do too much with a young horse in a pen anyway. eileen x

[eileen]

Just seen your post above Loza, i dont think anyone has "jumped" on OP's friend, advice was asked for and freely given with good solid info to back it up. Hopefully OP will see this as Intelligent Horsemanship rather than criticism! eileen x

[LMuirEDT]

there is a time and place for all forms of training

yes im all for getting an experience persons help but if someones not experienced then u cant tell them to do one thing and not the other, ive seen young horses get dragged round by their mouth on long lines whereas lunging works off a cavesson so leaves the mouth well alone. In hand work is the best way to start a horse anyway (im agreeing with who ever said that)

[LMuirEDT]

ok maybe 'jump on' wasnt quite what I meant,

[Zoe RA]

I am wondering if you have missed the posts that have explained why no lunging of youngsters?

Yes, they all develop at different rates both mentally and physically, and some do need more mental stimulation than others at an earlier age. But as you will already know, there is shed loads that can be done with a youngster that does not involve taxing them physically and possibly compromising them for later life.

Could I ask why you are so upset that we would rather long line than lunge? You do seem to be as passionate about lunging as we are about long lining ;D

[Zoe RA]

Long lining should rarely if ever be done off the bit Loza.

I use a Dually or normal head collar and will only ever clip on to the bit with a horse who I am backing -just to get him used to a light contact - and only once the horse is established in his long lining.

[eileen]

Loza, sounds like you have been to some pretty awful yards
Looking back on the question OP asked i would guess that her friend has lunged before but the horse in question already knew how to do it (obviously not a baby). As well as all the other good info already posted on here i would say your posts would definately make her think twice now about lunging! ie: pulled in the mouth, dragged around etc Hopefully OP's friend will have a good think about her next step and might even buy one of Kellys' books to do some good groundwork with her youngsters. eileen xx

[Cameo]

Jackie - I think that your firned is asking the right questions - and personally if she is wanting to start her young TBs on her own - I owud still advocate help - it is no picnic starting young babies - particulalry thoroughbreds. In racing where starting early in the extreme - the "waste" of young ruined horses is phenomenal - so many go nowehre after they "retire" from racing.


At 2, you are looking at manners and handling, at 1 the same.
no circling until 3 at the earliest - then only large sweeping ones - in long lines - there isn't really any use to circling real babies - their bones just aren't ready.


Loza - "yes im all for getting an experience persons help but if someones not experienced then u cant tell them to do one thing and not the other," - I'm not quite sure what you mean here - I would have thought that , that is what we should be doing - helping someone if they are inexperienced (haven't done it before) and are asking for help - surely that is what she wants - and what people are doing?

If the general opinion of those who have started young horses is NOT to lunge, but Yes to longline (when ready) then surely that is what they should offer as advice?)

Perhaps you mean something else I have misunderstood?

[sixfootblonde]

Dec 7, 2008 22:29:20 GMT 1 LMuirEDT said:

are you suggesting all horses started before 6/7 years old have 'worn out' early? I beg to differ... id like to see ur evidence of this

im all for informed decisions but people dont think for themselves when evidence like this comes along, they take it on face value, Ive read many a 'study' which is totally flawed!!!

I do believe that horses started 'hard' and young are far more prone to wearing out early.

I have to bow down to people like Dr Deb whose knowledge is far greater than my own. And have seen great results. That is what I choose for my own horses and it is obviously up to the individual what they believe is right and wrong. I just feel that horse owners get the conventional information all around and see nothing wrong with reading research presented by an expert which may conflict. Some people will take it as gospel, and some such as you will not.