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Post by Susan on Jan 3, 2009 19:15:12 GMT 1
Chris you have made so very valid points and I apologise if I read your reply in the wrong way. There are many ways to look at my subject of Horses like Onions and as you say it is a very useful one. As to whether I will actually head for the centre, I doubt it. This onion I own has so many layers to last me his lifetime. Do I want no onion left No I dont .. in reality where would my goals be then? I think if you are in this game for the reasons many of us are to seek better and better of you, your horse, relationships, skills then I as with many will never be satisfied. That is the journey which can be wonderful not sure I agree they dont teach us as more mirror us.. I think they do both. The great thing is when you peel that layer of lack of belief in yourself and then your horse also does same, you both come to the next layer ready to move on more because you know you now can. That was my whole point, I got to that one, then I also had this soft but I didnt keep to the deal! that is when he taught me to listen to him.
You seem to be having a great journey yourself with Scully and look at the relationship you are building on..
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Post by june on Jan 3, 2009 19:34:23 GMT 1
I think it is mostly because horses mirror their handlers that they are great teachers.
I like the onion analogy because as you sort yourself out as a rider, the next thing to sort out is slightly smaller, just like each layer of the onion is slightly thinner. Just because it is smaller doesn't mean it is any less important though, especially to the horse.
Its the same with training horses. You teach them a cue and then you need to make the cue smaller and smaller because the horse gets it. You use a small amount of pressure on the rein to get soft and release as soon as the horse responds. That eventually becomes no pressure other than the move to pick up the reins to get soft.
Being consistent is hugely important. Once you've taught the horse a cue you have a responsibility to give the same cue to get the same result and to reduce the cue to the tiniest one possible. When the horse understands a cue you no longer need to shout it, you need to whisper it, and with some horses you simply need to think it.
I doubt you ever get to the inside of the onion because there is always something to work on with horses and ourselves. Even Olympic riders still have things they have to work on so the rest of us "lesser mortals" don't really need to worry about running out of challenges!
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Post by mandal on Jan 3, 2009 21:46:28 GMT 1
I think it is mostly because horses mirror their handlers that they are great teachers. Arghhhhhhhhh!!! HELP!!!!
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Post by june on Jan 3, 2009 22:00:28 GMT 1
;D
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Post by june on Jan 3, 2009 22:00:52 GMT 1
Hmmmm, think it is about time we got rid of the Santa hats!
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laura
Grand Prix Poster
going for a splash
Posts: 3,867
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Post by laura on Jan 3, 2009 22:24:49 GMT 1
dont have to remove xmas decs till twelfth night ... tuesday
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Post by june on Jan 3, 2009 22:45:28 GMT 1
I know but Christmas feels ages away already. How many days till Christmas?!
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laura
Grand Prix Poster
going for a splash
Posts: 3,867
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Post by laura on Jan 3, 2009 22:47:25 GMT 1
356
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Post by june on Jan 3, 2009 23:13:38 GMT 1
Phew. Maybe I'll be organised this year then
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laura
Grand Prix Poster
going for a splash
Posts: 3,867
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Post by laura on Jan 4, 2009 0:55:26 GMT 1
like today when Taz got herself into the barn ( via little door) as usual where we are usually undisturbed and as she munched I hopped on and just sat there with my eyes closed feeling every little muscle and movment. I could tell when she looked left , right , moved head up or down etc ................ luverly then every so often she turned and touched my foot oh and the smell of hay
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Post by Susan on Jan 4, 2009 23:50:58 GMT 1
Oh Yes.. dont forget to enjoy all those moments..
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el
Olympic Poster
Posts: 710
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Post by el on Jan 5, 2009 13:27:01 GMT 1
Yeah, the more I do the more I reckon that horses are all brilliant and can do pretty much everything we want, AND more! and it's us that take a while to come up to their level and figure out what we need to do to allow them to move well and not get in their way or confuse them. Here's an Ozzie update that touches on this a little .......... found out he can do the most incredible trot to canter transitions if I ask just using energy........... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ (the colour is a bit funny in the pic, think my brother has put it through photoshop)Back at the end of Nov Ozzie had done about two months of daily work so we were doing nice walk, trot and canters out about in the big fields. He's been out doing nothing since then so I was going to do a bit for the week I was home over christmas, so it was so "blinking" cold plus I was lazy and ate too much I didn't fo much....... Anyway, I was getting some slight electronic grief a few days ago from Tom W about why I wasn't out doing something horsey so out I hopped (not literally though I did walk quietly to avoid the dog) caught the Ozmeister to do 10 mins groundwork before it got dark to see where his head at was these days. Asked for a nice walk & trot on left rein (his slightly beter rein). Lovely. Asked for same on right rein. Walk good, when asked to trot went into canter. Did a one minor unscheduled canter to halt. I ignored all that and just asked him gently to trot on again, and then he did no worries. Then back on left rein, did nice canter, not once was there any weight on the rein from him. Was then going to just do a better walk and trot on right rein (not as good) and leave it at that as was getting dark, and it'd be a good start anyway.... So did walk, lovely, just as good as the good rein. Did trot, again lovely, relaxed, easy rhythm etc. I practised physically 'upping' my energy to get him to change gaits, not going faster or slower really, just buildling energy instead. It was a bit cold so I was doing a nice trot myself along with the Oz.... there was a little hill (up and down) going along the center of where we were working, so as I trotted along myself (not fast or anything) I must having been increasing my energy Oz did THE MOST PERFECT relaxed trot to relaxed canter transition - it was one of those true 'change gait don't change speed' things... He did the lightest softest few steps of canter, he looked about 17 hands... my jaw dropped and I tried not to fall over. All the time still nothing in my hand....... He came back down to a trot himself, so I let him do a few more steps in trot, then asked him back to walk, then halt, then whipped the halter off him ASAP. If I could now only do all that energy stuff in the saddle I'd have some ridden transitions........ I just have to remember when I want Oz to canter (ground or riden) - I don't try to make him canter by squeezing and willing him to go on faster - imagine and feel in your body that you're already cantering and then you'll find you are........ (i'm sure it'll take a while though to sink into my head..and longer to sink into my bones...) He can do all this stuff AMAZINGLY if I ask him in a way which is easy & logical for him, so I just need to do the same in the saddle for some breathtaking transitions!! I suspect it won't be quite that simple for me but it is possible ...
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Post by Susan on Jan 5, 2009 13:58:58 GMT 1
OHHH El how interesting. Isnt it funny how much we can do inhand then get it wrong when undersaddle.
I try to remember Mark Rashid with the one two one two for trot rather then the trot word. I saw this suggested by him so many times and it worked so well. I need to try it also for canter, as I had this blank when it came to canter ( do you recall it at Toms clinic) as I do try but I know it is me making it difficult. But as I have got this breakthrouygh recently with Flynn on the lines and getting canter simply by asking voice command and not doing my own canter alongside. It must seem so daft to others to get excited I got Flynn to canter on the lines without having to use so much energy myself. I know the problem is I dont breath and of course nether does he, and you can imgaine how hard it is to canter holding your breath, no wonder the poor lad struggles. But now I have this breakthrough, I now believe it will happen and so it does! now we have both a case of Flynn mirroring me both struggling and then doing it easily. Now I have this layer unpeeled and appreciate I was making it hard for him I can start to go more forwards. Another good layer to build on. So of course all horses can do these things, it is a real case of me getting in the way of progress (Again!)
El also talked of breathing out at every transision and when I "Remember" to do that funny that usually helps a great deal. I seem to forget the parts of the deal I am supposed to keep to, so it cant be his fault when I break them.
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el
Olympic Poster
Posts: 710
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Post by el on Jan 5, 2009 14:07:22 GMT 1
Its a pain there's so much to remember! I reckon though the more we practise remembering the stuff though, the less we'll have to try to remember after a while. But it'd be no good if we'd nothing to strive for, if there was no challenge I'd get bored anyway When you get those little 'woohooo we did it' moments they are pretty special
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Post by mandal on Jan 5, 2009 14:11:15 GMT 1
Yeah, the more I do the more I reckon that horses are all brilliant and can do pretty much everything we want, AND more! and it's us that take a while to come up to their level and figure out what we need to do to allow them to move well and not get in their way or confuse them.
I put in bold the bits of your fab post el that are most important to me.
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