Horses are like Onions

[Susan]

Now there is a title to a thread to make you think what on earth is this about.
Well lets go back a little to explain.
I like many have sought to improve how my horse (Flynn) went for me. He was more then capable but it was my lack of skills to get the best from him.
Now I have improved a lot ( not big headed ego trip either) and this isnt about the methods I have have gone down to achieve that but more understanding about how it all becomes like a large onion!
Now why an onion?
I am sure you will read this and think Ok Susan has now lost the plot totally but read on.
I am sure you will have been in that place, of at LAST I have GOT it! I can now do it all.. at last the work has paid off we have cracked it.
Then gone back in the school and something hasnt been right and you think Oh No what now? why isnt it working anymore.
Is my horse having a bad day?
Is my horse not in the mood?
OR
Is it me what am I doing wrong?

I thought I had it all sewn up when I attended the Tom Widdicombe clinic lte last year. ( yup 2008 is now behind us)
I discovered a real belief in me and so did Flynn. I achieved Soft for real for the 1st time in our riding.
Flynn must have thought thank god.
I believed it was then all going to be the answer to go forwards to any question I asked of him.
But the reality check happened, I had only peeled one layer of the onion skin!
We now got on and Flynn moved straight away, he believed me so I thought now anything I ask will happen.
Wrong and how did I find out. Flynn said No I cant! so from a beautiful walk in soft with his back lifting and stepping under you would think we would get that lift off into a bigger walk or up into trot all the time. Wrong again.
I was staring to get this terrible camel walk and worse if forced forwards he went to a pace walk. I would be trying to force him out of his correct walk and get a pace.
Now I knew it was wrong but I had no idea why? or worse how to correct it.
Now enter June.
Help..I shout..
June has moved on so much in understanding the inner horse from all of these clinics she has hosted at her home, thank god I now have to say.
Straight away she saw Flynn was understanding the Soft eliment in such a way any form of pressure on the reins became a pull. She read him and saw it straight away.He felt he was not being allowed to move forwards lbut having a brick wall in front of him but being asked still to go with the brakes on.

I have now achieved a horse with such a understanding of a soft contact that unless I allow in a crystal clear way and make the reward of Yes that is right he feels he can not move as asked.
So it isnt , he isnt in the mood.
It has shown me just how sensitive this large horse in fact is.
It isnt that he is having a bad day
It is Me.. and that blasted Onion.. that when you gain a breakthrough it is only till the next layer.

Monty talks of incremental learning.. making it learnt in stages and making those stages small but when do it right and more so established only then can you move onto the next stage.
Onions, layers and layers of skin built on firm foundations. But dont think you can go to the centre till you have got each layer off properly.
Because I have found out it will bite you back.
I had likened it to fell walking, you know when you "Think" you are about to get to the place you are aiming for you look and there is another higher place in front of you.
Well June said I actually see it like an onion and she is right.

I did say perhaps it might be easier to simply become a happy hacker but in reality even being a happy hacker you have to be Happy! and if Flynn does not perform as I would like I would not be happy.
So back to peeling onions.. slowly but learning to listen to him and know when it is right to say I can now take off another layer and move to the next one.

You know what we simply do not give enough credit to these amazing creatures The Horse for being so sensitive and then to learn to really listen to them because they do talk back.

So back to Chopping Board.. and you know what these onions do make you cry but tears of Joy when you get another layer off.
Perhaps 2009 will be thinner skins.

[stybba]

I think God sent horses to teach us, not the other way round!

Horses know exactly how to be horses, we are the ones with all the hang ups!

I hope you and Flynn continue to work together in wonderful harmony in 2009!

[june]

I'd agree with that stybba. They are great teachers. You sort one thing out and then you forget and revert to the old system, even if only in a tiny way, and they remind you that that isn't the deal any longer.

The softness stuff is really interesting. Ultimately, you're asking the horse to soften in the jaw and relax the poll with nothing more than you going to pick up the reins. When the horse has got that message, as Susan's Flynn has, then the slightest pull on the rein is no longer part of the deal.

A long time ago Flynn wouldn't have responded to quite a hard pull on the reins. Now he responds to the lightest touch which puts a huge responsibility on the rider to push with their hands rather than pull. Susan just tipping her hand slightly, and it was minimal, was enough for him to be of the opinion that it was a pull. Once she started pushing Flynn went forwards softly and happily. Years ago he wouldn't have noticed at all. Now the aids have to be much smaller and more accurate.

Every layer you peel off, you find another more subtle one underneath. Its the same with riding. Every time you make a breakthrough with your riding there is another more subtle tweak that need to be made. I guess that is what makes it such fun. It is a journey rather than a destination.

[HeatherL*]

So very true, I'm still only a few layers down and my own little "onion" has many more to go I think. It's a wonderful journey though isn't it :-)

[laura]

Its the same with riding. Every time you make a breakthrough with your riding there is another more subtle tweak that need to be made. I guess that is what makes it such fun. It is a journey rather than a destination.

oh sooo true

I thought a few years ago I was an ok rider at basic level, nothing great but I could stay on at walk trot and canter, even jump a few jumps ...... then I started to REALLY look at the relationship and what soft really meant and realised how crude I was ( and I was already somone who prided .... because I was told by several trainers.... myself on having "good" hands).
For me it was the silversand clinics I attended that taught me what soft REALLY meant and how much work one has to do at the halt and walk before even thinking of getting "it "at trot . But I will say that once you have "it" you seek it even more ...... and I can see what you mean Susan about layers.... getting to the heart of what true softeness is about stages.

Have a wonderful journey susan ............ I put mine on hold a little to let my friend have some lessons with Taz ( who has taught her to be a lot less mechanical in her riding ) but she will be having Bonney back so I can let Taz teach me agia ;Dn

[iammizz]

what a lovely thread xx

[Susan]

Yes Heather it is a wonderful but such a responcibility. Listen to Bella she will help you a lot take it from someone who knows!

Stybba hang ups summed me up big time. But we will certainly aim for that harmony 2009 its on my wish list. Hey what a NY resolution to make.

I recall back in our early riding days with the many trainers I went through.. they were all of the same opinion of this 15-25lbs of pressure that was needed to keep your horse hauled in. One then even had me in the spiked spurs and I was to hold him in tight and KICK with these spurs but not let go, keep up the kicking then to let go.. the intention was I was letting out this wound up elastic band.
Hey guess what, it didnt work.. instead he shut down completly.

I dont say these things because I am proud of them as I am not but hope someone may read it and think! that isnt right and hope they may learn from me many mistakes.


The truth is exactly how June explains as well, not only did he take a BIG Pull to notice much up top he dribbled still when the brakes were applied.. now I have those layers unpeeled.. as June said they get more softer and sensitive towards the middle. Tweaking is minor to me but big to him. Gosh do you have to be careful what you teach now!


But he didnt hold it against me ( thank god) when I got the trainer he and I needed and so deserved we had to work on making his sides soft and answer softer aids. But I never for one minute saw this coming when we got the soft acceptance at the front end.

[laura]

Gosh do you have to be careful what you teach now!

oh indeed and it means that WE have to be ever ready to look at what we have actaully asked rather than what we THINK we have asked ..........

it was soooooo clear to me when my friend was having lessons on Taz. Even when J thought she was sitting still or asking for halt she was getting backup, lateral moves etc instead.... 'cause she was soooo off balance ! She was saying Taz was "naughty" and it took her a few lessons before she could see that it was her balance and Taz's resonsiveness.

A while back when I had asked he what she wanted to to with Bonney she said she wanted her as "good" as Taz .......... now I think she understands what a responsibility it is having even the beginnings of responiveness .. and we are just at the begining imo.

[Furiey]

Keep peeling at that onion Susan towards the inner horse. I don't think you ever get there as the onion is growing from the inside, but it's definitely fun on the way, maybe as with any onion a few tears, but it is worth it. I know I've got so much to find out about my little onion!

Happy New Year to you and Flynn, may you both never run out of onion.

[Susan]

Jan 2, 2009 21:01:08 GMT 1 laura said:

Gosh do you have to be careful what you teach now!

oh indeed and it means that WE have to be ever ready to look at what we have actaully asked rather than what we THINK we have asked ..........

Oh MY Gods Laura are you right.. that is sooooo true.

Your other comments also rang true with Louise my sharer ( taking back seat at mo) she was on Flynn ( who has taught her so much as well) and she was asking for turn on haunches but got back up, and I noticed this everso slight weight go into the back of the saddle and I asked her was she pulling reins as she thought she was using leg aid.. well Yes she was when she thought about it. This also makes you watch everything in micro detail

I suppose one could say I am micro riding or aiming to.

[Susan]

Jan 2, 2009 20:42:45 GMT 1 iammizz said:

what a lovely thread xx

Thank you very much..

[Susan]

I would like to add when I said at one time Flynn wasnt listening to quite a hard pull on the reins, I did not mean he had no brakes. That is one thing Flynn has always had Brakes.. no matter what one was doing he had brakes.
But a pull of that kind is not what we mean.

I just felt I needed to clarify that.

Annabelle when she did a clinic with us she talked of a Touch and a Dent.

To me this is similar a Push or a Pull.

[Susan]

Jan 3, 2009 9:50:57 GMT 1 @chrisbetson said:

?

I am not saying we shouldn't try to improve the communication and the quality of the relationship - far from it, but do be careful in what you are doing and go at the horse's pace, not yours!

Chris.. not sure how much you did "Read" and "Listen" to what I was saying in my original subject thread.
The whole point I have had to learn is to go at Flynns pace not my own and by "listening" to him when he said I cant go forwards we learned why. That is the inner horse, yes being stripped away but biting back if taken off too soon.
It was also about saying perhaps you never do crack the centre! no matter what you "Think" is your goal what you will be satisfied with , when you get there horses throw another layer at you, that is if you listen!

So I think I personally am trying hard to be careful what I do, aim for getting it right, work "With" him and hopefully harmony. I also think this can be the same for most of us.

That is the beauty of horses and making it interesting.

[laura]

As with people, stripping away the layers of the onion (a concept well known in psychology) can be dangerous - those coping mechanisms have developed for good reason, so removing them also needs to deal with the underlying reason and those reasons are not always apparent.

as susan said I think that we agree with you chris .......... sorta like if you could actually find a VERY sensitiv ehorse underneath an apparent "shut down" layer. If thats how the horse coped...... by just "ignoring" all the "loudness" and you suddenly say .... Ok I want you to listen...... kaboooooom

I had this years ago when first had Taz ......... although her intitial problems had seemed bad enough when I "allowed" her to react and show me the problems we discovered one heck of an onion ... lots and lots and lots of tears peeling that lot apart. That was a rotting onion ....... now we are on a journey to find the softest heart ;D

Luckily Taz reacts these days to frustration by tossing her head........... then pawing the ground ... then crossing her front legs. This happens if I am asking something and perhaps its not clear to her, or I am not asking right or not helping her to understand what it is that I want right etc. But if I had a horse that reacted stronger than that we could be in big trouble. If I get to pawing stage especially then I am the one at fault, I have taken too big a step imo for either her or myself ....

We all have out little pictures to help us understand the complexities of human and equine ...... sadly probably most of us ( and I include myself despite having a professional awareness and requirement to do it in my job with humans) in the main do not look beyond the outer skin of the onion unless the onion starts to cause a problem and make our eyes water !

[mandal]

Jan 2, 2009 23:41:16 GMT 1 Susan said:

Jan 2, 2009 21:01:08 GMT 1 laura said:

oh indeed and it means that WE have to be ever ready to look at what we have actaully asked rather than what we THINK we have asked ..........

Oh MY Gods Laura are you right.. that is sooooo true.

Agreed!!!!