Post by Admin on Aug 4, 2005 10:36:28 GMT 1
Subject : How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Carly
Date : 23.05.04 6:40:00 PM
Please could someone tell me the early stages to look for. And if you suspect mild case what to do. How long does it take to pass. My pony is crestie and fat. He is out all day and in at night. I thought he walked a little head low today. If I suspect and make him a pen with just hay for two weeks would this sound ok. A lady at my yard said to give bute and ACP for a two week course but if he starts to lay down to call the vet straight away.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 23.05.04 6:44:00 PM
Well if he is cresty and fat then get him on a starvation paddock immediatley.
I'd say make it more permanent than 2 weeks. If he looks like he may be starting to get lam then 2 weeks on no grass at all may be necessary, then you can perhaps increase from starvation to just restricted.
Personally I like to keep my relatively slim, fit, never had lam Shettie on permanent starvation paddock through the spring and early summer and just feed ad lib late cut hay and a small hard feed with vitamins.
Early signs can vary from looking uncomfortable to walking a bit stiffly or 'pottery' to the classic lam leaning backwards stance etc...
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 23.05.04 6:48:00 PM
get the vet of you suspect it.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Carly
Date : 23.05.04 7:43:00 PM
Starvation paddock I take it you mean just hay and water no grass. I have made a pen and thought 1 small slice of hay during the day no grass at all then 1/2 slice of hay at night with straw bed and water of course. Thanks for advice.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Veronica F
Date : 23.05.04 7:55:00 PM
Hi Carly, just before the spring my Ollie was looking very fat and had a cresty neck,so I took heed, I put him on that mag stuff,and cut his food right back to what amounts he was having, kept him in in the day and let him out at night with hardly any grass, just so he would get the excise, it worked but with Ollie he wasn't sore at all, I was very lucky but only just I feel,luckly he has now lost all that weight and cresty neck,
but if he was or had been sore I would have called the vet and got him n bute straight away,called my farrier, and put him on a careful diet.love Vxxx
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 23.05.04 8:46:00 PM
You need to work out what weight your pony is, get a weightape from D&H, and give him 1.5% of his bodyweight in hay per day, plus a good all-round vit/min supplement, or TopSpec Anti-Lam balancer perhaps.
You also need to learn how to find his digital pulse and check it twice a day, every day. If you run your finger and thumb down the groove in front of the tendon at the back of the leg, one on either side, as you get to the fetlock joint carry stright on to the edge of the fetlock, just before it turns down to the pastern. You should find some squidgy blood vessels there. Feel gently around those for a pulse - it should be very faint like the pulse in your wrist, or none at all.
If you find a lot stronger than normal pulse or he looks sore-footed, get the vet immediately.
Jackie
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 23.05.04 9:57:00 PM
Is the hot feet a myth? No one has mentioned this.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Lyn
Date : 23.05.04 10:13:00 PM
Hot hooves are when a pony has developed Laminitis, but the hoof temperature will vary naturaly at different times of the day. You need to get to know your pony so you know what is a normal warmth and what is not. As Jackie said you need to do this for the digital pulse as well. Another sign of Laminitis that is often overlooked is a puffines at the back of the knee and tendon. A more obvious sign is when a pony is reluctant to walk and they tend to walk on the heels. Well done for spotting your pony was not as normal. If you take precautions now you may be able to prevent the onset. Also look for a hardening and tenderness on the crest.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : lou
Date : 23.05.04 10:14:00 PM
sorry to to sound thick what is ment by cresty
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 23.05.04 10:17:00 PM
Thick neck. Crest being the top line along the neck. Meaning too fat!
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Bea
Date : 23.05.04 10:32:00 PM
Beladonna is a great homeopathic remedy for the onset of laminitis - if the pulse is full. Follow the instructions on the container aswell as doing the food restriction.
I'm not saying don't get the vet out, but you may save yourself the bill.
Out of interest, I know a girl who has a cresty horse, he's like it no matter what, even in winter when he drops weight. Can this be helped or has it become permanent?
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Victoria A
Date : 23.05.04 11:42:00 PM
Dolly had a mild case last summer, she was still overweight from when we got her in Feb (was reducing though) and had twice broken through the fence to get to the lusher grazing when I took WIllow out for a ride, each time she has probably stuffed her face for up to an hour before she was discovered (yes fence well and truely secure now!!). One evening after such an episode she just wasn't right, she would walk but didn't seem quite comfortable. Immediately stabled her and called vet, confirmed a mild case (caught early thank goodness), stables on bute for a week (or maybe 2 can't remember), then to be strip grazed (went off and bought electric fencing). Touch wood she has been fine since and is a much better weight this year. She is on pretty bald grazing at the moment with a little exra hay, and has a couple of handfuls of Hi Fi Lite with PAsture plus vitamin and mineral biscuits when I feed Willow. Her ribs are easily felt, nicely shaped bum (no big dip), still has a tummy but has had a foal in the past, and still has a bit of a cresty neck. I think the best thing is - you know your pony, you will instinctively know if something isn't quite right. Follow the advice you have been given, and if you do suspect laminitis please do get the vet asap.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Chloe
Date : 24.05.04 5:23:00 PM
Would the hooves be ridgy if the pony was starting to get laminitis?
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 24.05.04 5:30:00 PM
Laminitis & founder will cause ridges in the hooves, but not at the start of laminitis. Also a serious illness in the past could have cause ridges too. Definitely check with your vet
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : flojo
Date : 24.05.04 6:08:00 PM
advice to anyone whose horse or pony is showing first signs of laminitis- stand them with their feet in cold/iced water. there as been recent research suggesting this can slow down or halt the onset of symptoms
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 24.05.04 6:47:00 PM
Take the PH value of the dung each day. If iot changes (sorry cant remmember what FROm and what TO) - THEN is the time to stand the horse in iced water - to start up the IV shunt, and PREVENT the attack of laminitis.
48hrs iced water.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 24.05.04 7:36:00 PM
By the time the horse or pony shows discmfort all these measures are too late - they could be employed after eg a feedroom break in, but pain comes 48hrs after the incident that caused it.
Jackie
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 24.05.04 9:46:00 PM
"48hrs iced water"
Surely an old wives tale-you want to encourage bloodflow to the feet.
If in doubt, ring the vet, particularly if your pony/you haave no experiance of laminitis. It is peak time at the moment, look at the number of posts about it, my vet says she has had to put several horses down already due to it this year. IMO, a condition not taken seriously enough, as it is little understood-even by vets
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : arich073
Date : 24.05.04 9:56:00 PM
my horse had warm feet yesterday, but is this not due to the weather being hot???..he has a constant supply of water. plenty of shade, and 24/7 turnout
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 25.05.04 7:10:00 AM
"48hrs iced water" - BEFORE any other signs of laminitis - to prevent the toxins from getting anywhere NEAR the maninae.
From Derek Knottenbolt. Recent research, not old stuff.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Carly
Date : 25.05.04 7:12:00 AM
Thank you to all your replies. I called the vet as felt best too. He told me to either stable him if did not want to walk (if he was laying down the vet would come straight out) for a week on a good soft bed with hay water and check him as much as poss. He sent ACP and bute 1 bute a day for 1 - 2 weeks 4 ACP 3 x times a day. If he is best out then make a small pen on soft ground with hay and water and keep checking him. He should improve within 2 weeks. I dont know what I am to do after that as I have to call the vet for the next stage. I can't understand how he got it he is out all day in at night never had it before. My blacksmith has cut his feet right back (WHY?) so is a little sore and my blacksmith will put heart bars on him if we need to (unshod at present) What should the sole look like people keep telling me to look at any changes in the foot HELP? I am so upset as other people near me have small ponies they are in big lush fields just cut the field and put the ponies straight out why me? I feel its all my fault and should have seen it sooner, but how do you see the real early stages.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 25.05.04 7:16:00 AM
Ph value of the dung is the FIRST sign.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 25.05.04 7:18:00 AM
It probably depends on the hormonal state of your pony Carla - times are a changing and an increasing number have high insulin or early Cushing's. If a pony gets laminitis without any obvious 'accidental overload', I would get his blood tested so you know what you are dealing with in future. If he has high insulin, you need to settle on a management regime that will keep it low.
Jackie
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Carly
Date : 25.05.04 7:26:00 AM
Thanks JackieJA Taylor
Sorry for more questions whats Insulin and cushing's. Is long grass best or short grass. What is it in the grass that makes them get Laminitis. He use to be on rich grass with clover and never got it. This year we put him on just normal grass as we had lots of rain/sun and he got it. What should the feet look like how do you know if the soles have droped and will they go back again to normal. Sorry more questions just trying to get more understanding of this horrid problem
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Carly
Date : 25.05.04 7:37:00 AM
Anon a week ago I sent my dung off for worm samples nil return would that have show up anything?
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 25.05.04 7:39:00 AM
no it wouldnt]
You test the dung each day yourself with a PH tester you get from a garden centre (usually used for soil)
Sorry - cant remember exact details, and have never found anything on the internet.
A distinct change is the worrying sign... this reserch may have been too new to publish ...
From : Carly
Date : 23.05.04 6:40:00 PM
Please could someone tell me the early stages to look for. And if you suspect mild case what to do. How long does it take to pass. My pony is crestie and fat. He is out all day and in at night. I thought he walked a little head low today. If I suspect and make him a pen with just hay for two weeks would this sound ok. A lady at my yard said to give bute and ACP for a two week course but if he starts to lay down to call the vet straight away.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 23.05.04 6:44:00 PM
Well if he is cresty and fat then get him on a starvation paddock immediatley.
I'd say make it more permanent than 2 weeks. If he looks like he may be starting to get lam then 2 weeks on no grass at all may be necessary, then you can perhaps increase from starvation to just restricted.
Personally I like to keep my relatively slim, fit, never had lam Shettie on permanent starvation paddock through the spring and early summer and just feed ad lib late cut hay and a small hard feed with vitamins.
Early signs can vary from looking uncomfortable to walking a bit stiffly or 'pottery' to the classic lam leaning backwards stance etc...
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 23.05.04 6:48:00 PM
get the vet of you suspect it.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Carly
Date : 23.05.04 7:43:00 PM
Starvation paddock I take it you mean just hay and water no grass. I have made a pen and thought 1 small slice of hay during the day no grass at all then 1/2 slice of hay at night with straw bed and water of course. Thanks for advice.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Veronica F
Date : 23.05.04 7:55:00 PM
Hi Carly, just before the spring my Ollie was looking very fat and had a cresty neck,so I took heed, I put him on that mag stuff,and cut his food right back to what amounts he was having, kept him in in the day and let him out at night with hardly any grass, just so he would get the excise, it worked but with Ollie he wasn't sore at all, I was very lucky but only just I feel,luckly he has now lost all that weight and cresty neck,
but if he was or had been sore I would have called the vet and got him n bute straight away,called my farrier, and put him on a careful diet.love Vxxx
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 23.05.04 8:46:00 PM
You need to work out what weight your pony is, get a weightape from D&H, and give him 1.5% of his bodyweight in hay per day, plus a good all-round vit/min supplement, or TopSpec Anti-Lam balancer perhaps.
You also need to learn how to find his digital pulse and check it twice a day, every day. If you run your finger and thumb down the groove in front of the tendon at the back of the leg, one on either side, as you get to the fetlock joint carry stright on to the edge of the fetlock, just before it turns down to the pastern. You should find some squidgy blood vessels there. Feel gently around those for a pulse - it should be very faint like the pulse in your wrist, or none at all.
If you find a lot stronger than normal pulse or he looks sore-footed, get the vet immediately.
Jackie
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 23.05.04 9:57:00 PM
Is the hot feet a myth? No one has mentioned this.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Lyn
Date : 23.05.04 10:13:00 PM
Hot hooves are when a pony has developed Laminitis, but the hoof temperature will vary naturaly at different times of the day. You need to get to know your pony so you know what is a normal warmth and what is not. As Jackie said you need to do this for the digital pulse as well. Another sign of Laminitis that is often overlooked is a puffines at the back of the knee and tendon. A more obvious sign is when a pony is reluctant to walk and they tend to walk on the heels. Well done for spotting your pony was not as normal. If you take precautions now you may be able to prevent the onset. Also look for a hardening and tenderness on the crest.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : lou
Date : 23.05.04 10:14:00 PM
sorry to to sound thick what is ment by cresty
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 23.05.04 10:17:00 PM
Thick neck. Crest being the top line along the neck. Meaning too fat!
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Bea
Date : 23.05.04 10:32:00 PM
Beladonna is a great homeopathic remedy for the onset of laminitis - if the pulse is full. Follow the instructions on the container aswell as doing the food restriction.
I'm not saying don't get the vet out, but you may save yourself the bill.
Out of interest, I know a girl who has a cresty horse, he's like it no matter what, even in winter when he drops weight. Can this be helped or has it become permanent?
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Victoria A
Date : 23.05.04 11:42:00 PM
Dolly had a mild case last summer, she was still overweight from when we got her in Feb (was reducing though) and had twice broken through the fence to get to the lusher grazing when I took WIllow out for a ride, each time she has probably stuffed her face for up to an hour before she was discovered (yes fence well and truely secure now!!). One evening after such an episode she just wasn't right, she would walk but didn't seem quite comfortable. Immediately stabled her and called vet, confirmed a mild case (caught early thank goodness), stables on bute for a week (or maybe 2 can't remember), then to be strip grazed (went off and bought electric fencing). Touch wood she has been fine since and is a much better weight this year. She is on pretty bald grazing at the moment with a little exra hay, and has a couple of handfuls of Hi Fi Lite with PAsture plus vitamin and mineral biscuits when I feed Willow. Her ribs are easily felt, nicely shaped bum (no big dip), still has a tummy but has had a foal in the past, and still has a bit of a cresty neck. I think the best thing is - you know your pony, you will instinctively know if something isn't quite right. Follow the advice you have been given, and if you do suspect laminitis please do get the vet asap.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Chloe
Date : 24.05.04 5:23:00 PM
Would the hooves be ridgy if the pony was starting to get laminitis?
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 24.05.04 5:30:00 PM
Laminitis & founder will cause ridges in the hooves, but not at the start of laminitis. Also a serious illness in the past could have cause ridges too. Definitely check with your vet
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : flojo
Date : 24.05.04 6:08:00 PM
advice to anyone whose horse or pony is showing first signs of laminitis- stand them with their feet in cold/iced water. there as been recent research suggesting this can slow down or halt the onset of symptoms
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 24.05.04 6:47:00 PM
Take the PH value of the dung each day. If iot changes (sorry cant remmember what FROm and what TO) - THEN is the time to stand the horse in iced water - to start up the IV shunt, and PREVENT the attack of laminitis.
48hrs iced water.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 24.05.04 7:36:00 PM
By the time the horse or pony shows discmfort all these measures are too late - they could be employed after eg a feedroom break in, but pain comes 48hrs after the incident that caused it.
Jackie
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 24.05.04 9:46:00 PM
"48hrs iced water"
Surely an old wives tale-you want to encourage bloodflow to the feet.
If in doubt, ring the vet, particularly if your pony/you haave no experiance of laminitis. It is peak time at the moment, look at the number of posts about it, my vet says she has had to put several horses down already due to it this year. IMO, a condition not taken seriously enough, as it is little understood-even by vets
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : arich073
Date : 24.05.04 9:56:00 PM
my horse had warm feet yesterday, but is this not due to the weather being hot???..he has a constant supply of water. plenty of shade, and 24/7 turnout
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 25.05.04 7:10:00 AM
"48hrs iced water" - BEFORE any other signs of laminitis - to prevent the toxins from getting anywhere NEAR the maninae.
From Derek Knottenbolt. Recent research, not old stuff.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Carly
Date : 25.05.04 7:12:00 AM
Thank you to all your replies. I called the vet as felt best too. He told me to either stable him if did not want to walk (if he was laying down the vet would come straight out) for a week on a good soft bed with hay water and check him as much as poss. He sent ACP and bute 1 bute a day for 1 - 2 weeks 4 ACP 3 x times a day. If he is best out then make a small pen on soft ground with hay and water and keep checking him. He should improve within 2 weeks. I dont know what I am to do after that as I have to call the vet for the next stage. I can't understand how he got it he is out all day in at night never had it before. My blacksmith has cut his feet right back (WHY?) so is a little sore and my blacksmith will put heart bars on him if we need to (unshod at present) What should the sole look like people keep telling me to look at any changes in the foot HELP? I am so upset as other people near me have small ponies they are in big lush fields just cut the field and put the ponies straight out why me? I feel its all my fault and should have seen it sooner, but how do you see the real early stages.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 25.05.04 7:16:00 AM
Ph value of the dung is the FIRST sign.
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 25.05.04 7:18:00 AM
It probably depends on the hormonal state of your pony Carla - times are a changing and an increasing number have high insulin or early Cushing's. If a pony gets laminitis without any obvious 'accidental overload', I would get his blood tested so you know what you are dealing with in future. If he has high insulin, you need to settle on a management regime that will keep it low.
Jackie
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Carly
Date : 25.05.04 7:26:00 AM
Thanks JackieJA Taylor
Sorry for more questions whats Insulin and cushing's. Is long grass best or short grass. What is it in the grass that makes them get Laminitis. He use to be on rich grass with clover and never got it. This year we put him on just normal grass as we had lots of rain/sun and he got it. What should the feet look like how do you know if the soles have droped and will they go back again to normal. Sorry more questions just trying to get more understanding of this horrid problem
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From : Carly
Date : 25.05.04 7:37:00 AM
Anon a week ago I sent my dung off for worm samples nil return would that have show up anything?
Subject : re:- How do you tell early stages of Laminitis
From :
Date : 25.05.04 7:39:00 AM
no it wouldnt]
You test the dung each day yourself with a PH tester you get from a garden centre (usually used for soil)
Sorry - cant remember exact details, and have never found anything on the internet.
A distinct change is the worrying sign... this reserch may have been too new to publish ...
