help please jack keeps tanking off

[chatterbox]

Please help yet again im loosing my confidence as Jack keeps taking off. It doesnt matter wether im walking trotting or cantering. All of a sudden without warning he just launches himself and goes will pull up as soon as he gets up with the lead horse. My worry is if he does this on a road or accross a road as we have to cross a busy road every day to hack. He doesnt do it every hack but it is becomming more frequent. hes had his back teethe and saddle checked and fitted. Has adequate turnout and very little feed. I was told he can get above himself if he was overfed but he isnt. Im scared to ride him anymore i was having a lovly hack this morning trotting next to my friend another girl slightly ahead he was working lovley then just launched into the air and set off, my friend thinks i should sell him before he takes all my confidence.

[mags]

Can you not ride him at the front

[rosemaryhannah]

Does he do this with other riders on him? What happens if you turn him in a circle as soon as he starts to do this? And, forgive me asking, how much experience do you have?

[naria]

How are you riding him when he takes off? You need to be ready for him, so basically strong secure position, short reins & Jack either on the bit or in an outline so he's between hand & leg paying attention to you. If he's ridden like that you should feel if he's going to go at which point I'd give a strong verbal & physical telling off!

What bit is he in? I know it isn't the ideal solution but short term he may need something a little stronger or with a different type of action. Also what noseband do you use? No bit will help much if he has his mouth wide open or tongue over the bit!

Do you have lessons? If so what does your teacher say? Could you share a lesson to see if you get the same problem in the school since this is a safer enviroment to sort out problems?

If you have a good rider at the yard that you trust it might be a good idea to explain your problem to them & ask them to try hacking him in company a few times. They may then be able to give you a few tips while at the same time teaching him that this behaviour is totally unacceptable.

Ultimately if he's scaring you then maybe your friend is right & you should consider selling him. It all depends on how confident you are that you can solve this problem & how determined you are to keep him. If you want to keep him then my advice, for what it's worth, is to get some good professional help straight away!

Good luck!

[chatterbox]

Hi thanks for replys i have quite alot of experience but class myself as a novice rider thats why i got jack as he was advertised as safe sensible chap. I was riding on the bit at the time my friend was right next to me who is very experienced it wouldnt matter what bit i had in as it is so quick he doesnt hot up just lauches. My friend said the way he went you would have thought he had been stung or hit. He has nevere done this in the school. Yes i can ride him in the front but then he can be lazy and very spooky especially on the way home. Im wondering weather to give up all together as im sick and tired of things not going right. Is it too much to ask that i have a horse that can be hacked out safely in company and on its own. I love a good canter but not when im took off with. i have regular lessons and hack other horses out with no trouble. We went out with a 4 year old ex racehorse this morning and she behaved far better than Jack and he is a sensible cob type. i wish id stuck with my TB she was sharp but never ever took off with me

[Ryan&Dizzy]

what problems are you haveing with him and when did they start? i havent really followed how things have been going with you but i understood that all was well when you first got him.

and i am with you i can ride otto out with anything and although he is good he is always the most work...goes most places sideways and bouncing and will take off with me unless i really put up a fight! but i love him!

also ive not seen any pictures of him yet lol!!! hee hee hee

[naria]

Chatterbox, you have my sympathy as mine can be similar & he doesn't do warnings either. With him if my reactions are quick enough a bellowed "NO!!!!" & some very non-IH riding will usually stop him before he really goes but I'm extremely fussy about who I hack with and where.

"Is it too much to ask that i have a horse that can be hacked out safely in company and on its own."
I think that for a few horses yes, this is almost too much to ask for.

If hacking is what you enjoy most then maybe you should consider a different horse sinceJack may never be what you want. It's a difficult decision but we have horses to enjoy them & you don't sound like you're having a lot of fun at the moment. Maybe you're better suited to TB types?

[chatterbox]

when i first got jack he was out at night and in in the day i ride in a morning so he was being ridden after being out and was ok. As soon as i rode him straight from the stable he took off three times on that ride then has only done it a handful of times since. But we moved yards and to start with he was on a bare temp paddock so wasnt getting much grass so went very lazy he has just this week moved on to his new paddock 1 acre to himself of new pasture and since then has been alot more forward going which is great until he takes off. He does stop when he reaches the lead horse well has so far but i think if the lead horse got upset and went i wouldnt be able to get him back under control. He is excellent to handle to lead and in the stable fantastic with traffic. what a dilema sorry to go on im just so down

[tammy68]

How old is Jack? What breed and size. It is possible that you could school him out of this by getting him lighter in front by engaging his hindquarters more. This will take time and know how so, unless you have done it before then I would recommend you enlist the help of someone who is both experienced and knowledgeable. My Friend used to had a 13.2 Welsh cob pony who did this. Fortunately we lived in a quiet village and had 500 acres of her father's cornfields to ride in. However he would still just tank when we entered a cornfield if the mood took him. Unfortunately he knew his own strength and having a short strong neck she was like a kite in the wind and the only thing she could do to stop was to turn in ever decreasing circles.

She rode him in a Pelham bit with d's. Maybe today a dutch gag would have done the trick. She was 13 at the time and I am of the opinion now that her safety should have been paramount and her father was wrong to let her ride such a dangerous pony out.

Is this something your pony has started with you or did he do it in his last home? Once they have gone then it is very hard to get them back again. Another friend got bolted with from one village to the next, she thought her time was up. It happened to me too with a pony I rode for someone. She came to me having just got over laminitis and her neck was really thick and cresty. I took her for a ride out only intending to walk and trot as she wasn't fit enough to do any more. We trotted along the common and she just got faster and faster. I couldn't stop her at all and we ended up galloping down hill, along the lanes and round bends with me thinking I was going to die if we met a vehicle. Fortunately we met none and I headed her for a huge hedge at the bottom of a steep hill where she stopped dead. I was so relieved. She never did it again as once her weight and neck were down she couldn't take hold so. She was always a live wire and when I held her back she'd leap doing fly bucks like a deer. She was great fun!

Another time a I was riding a friend's pony and this took off with me done a track heading for the deepest floating bog in this country. I thought she was going to jump the gate at the end and managed to turn her into a fence where she stopped dead depositing me winded to the ground.

The final time this happened to me when I had been asked by a 'friend' to take her new horse round a fun ride course with her husband on his horse. This mare, after jumping the first just took hold and galloped. The ground was too hard to bail out, a huge hedge and ditch were looming and the ground in the middle of the field was set aside and very rough which I thought may bring her down. Not much time to decide I turned her and eventually managed to pull her up. Back at the lorry my friend asked me how I got on and I told her what had happened and suggested she change her bit for cross country and fun rides. Her reply was that she was usually ridden in a Dr Bristol and she couldn't stop her in that. She thought she'd let me try her in a simple eggbutt snaffle to see how she went! I had not long had my daughter either and I was quite upset that my so called friend was willing to risk my neck.

The only horses or ponies that have bolted or taken hold with me have been those belonging to other people. My own horses and ponies have always been well schooled and not ridden on slack reins with very little contact in a misguided attempt at kindness. They are ridden up to the bit into a contact where they relax their jaw and are light and responsive. There is then never any need to raunge and haul on their mouths. This is why I would recommend that you look to re-schooling in order to try and eradicate this dangerous behaviour. If it is too far gone then for your own safety I would use a stronger and more effective bit. Just think, if anything happened to you on your horse and you were badly injured or died then what would become of your horse? Would anyone be prepared to take him on?

Good luck and BE SAFE.

[Ryan&Dizzy]

tammy68 said:

My own horses and ponies have always been well schooled and not ridden on slack reins with very little contact in a misguided attempt at kindness.

im sorry i dont understand your thinking there...what is wrong with ridding on a slack rein? i often hack Otto out just holding the buckle and find he is always much more relaxed than if ridden into contact.. i do also hack out 'properly' but i dont see why riding on a slack rein makes your horse badly schooled. when asked my horse will go on the bit, i just find it more relaxing and fun to plod.

is there no chance you could ride Jack in the evenings after he has been turned out in the day? is that likely to have a chilling affect? have you got anybody to hack out with that you know there horse wont join him then you can work on jacks behaviour without being concerned about the other person.

how big is jack?

[tammy68]

Sorry Otto, I think there is nothing wrong with riding your horse out on a slack rein if he is known to be safe and is schooled in such a way as to be responsive. What I was trying to explain was that it is good to ride the horse up to the bit and for him to accept this contact - I was certainly not saying for it to be ridden in this way all the time - it is just that in this particular instance the pony or horse in question is launching and taking off. I was wondering if he was one of these 'wooden' types who has been ridden continually on a slack rein, is flat and on forehand and not engaging his hind quarters. When unschooled horses are on their forehand and not accepting of the bit then some will run through the hand when you attempt to stop them by using the reins when things go wrong. I don't know from the OP whether the horse in question is capable of accepting the bit or whether he is strong and on the forehand.
I am quite happy to ride my horse out on a hack on a long rein and will do so when schooling intermittently in order to reward and allow her to stretch her back muscles when she has worked really well or just cooling off.
It is really difficult to advise when you just have written words to go by and you have to rely on the description of what has been happening. It is so much easier when you can see what has been happening. When I started typing my reply the later postings of Naria and OP were not up so I was just going on the information I had read.
From the later post it seems he is schooled and is just suddenly going. IMO Naria offers some sound advice.

[chatterbox]

Hi Sophie thanks for your reply Jack is 15.3 mw. He is a 100% and more to handle and in the stable he is well mannered never barges(well hasnt yet had him nearly 6 months) excellent in the heaviest of traffic and with the low flying red arrows etc. He will plod out on the buckle end but as he can be very spooky he is better on the contact as he then works instead of keep looking around and jumping. I took him out this morning with my mate whos horse doesnt go if he does and he was fine he need pushing on on the way out and onthe way back i went in front and did a very slow controlled trot on the bit and he was ok even in the stubble. Just every now and again he seems to king of leap and go.

[tammy68]

The answer seems to be that you and Jack should always be lead horse, so you should choose carefully who you hack out with. If you meet up with other horses or decide to go on a fun ride then maybe you could think of a back up plan such as draw reins or something which are not used as such but are there as a back up in case of emergencies. I will probably get slated for suggesting some of these things but desperate times call for desperate measures and your safety (and Jack's) are number one, so here goes....
You could try riding him in a double bridle and mainly ride off the snaffle with the curb bit as your back up. A few short sharp shocks may make him think twice. Or else look into riding with a dually over the bridle and 2 sets of reins - one on his bit and the other onto the rings of the dually. If he goes then use both sets of reins. He sounds like a placid chap so I am sure neither of these will phase him too much, just hopefully help you to regain control.