Worming help

[gordo]

I need to do my fella again. Last time he was d/dosed with Strongid P so what do I do now. He is kept in a huge field with 2 mares who aren't wormed and I am not allowed to poo-pick. I know, not a good situation but I have to make the best of. Be grateful of your help.
He is 17.2hh ID/TB

[Mariaana]

Why don't you do a worm count first, to find out whther he's got any - although you won't know about encysted worms and tapeworms! If he was done for tapeworm (the double dose of StrongidP) recently, I would not worry yet.

I prefer to do worm counts and only worm with chemicals if the count is really high, and do the encysted / tapeworm and bots once or twice a year.

[gordo]

That is a jolly good idea. How do I go about achieving this??

[Diane with Sam & Jubilee]

Get in touch with Gill at westgates. She comes on here so put a PM up for her. The fact that your horse is in a field with unwormed horses and no poo picking is done would suggest to me that he is at high risk of getting worm burdens very quickly.

As a good routine wormer, Equest is hard to beat and that is what I would do yours with now. Only needs doing every 13 weeks. So 4 Equest a year and Equitape twice yearly would cover everything.

[Mariaana]

Contact a lab that does the testing - many on here use Westgate labs - I personally use Trinity Consultants in Jersey, tel: [phone], email [e-mail] - they are very good, helpful and cheap. Will can tell you all about it - he will send you a pot with gloves and a form to fill in - basically, you collect a piece of fresh poo in the pot, seal it, fill in the name of your horse etc on the form and on the pot, and send it off - you will get the results by email in a couple of days. They will then be able to advice you whether your horse needs treatment or not.

[mandal]

Worm counts can be done by your vet or I send the samples to Westgate labs email [e-mail] If you email them they will post you a kit which you post back when you've collected the samples(plus payment) and they email/post the result.If counts are high they recommend sending another sample 10 to 14 days after worming to ensure wormer used is effective. Vet will advise on worming regime.
Perhaps you could persuade other 'field' users to have counts done at least you will all have an idea whats going on. Cost at Westgate £9.50 per horse for up to 4 horses. I've heard of one horse dying because of high red worm count. I'd rather not have to worm at all but if counts rise I do.
I have been meaning to look into herbal wormers ie effectiveness and side effects but haven't got round to it yet.

[Diane with Sam & Jubilee]

Mandal, re herbal wormers. I recently completed the training to sell wormers and this subject was brought up. These products are no longer allowed to be called wormers as there is no evidence to show that they work and in a study of 19 horses who all had high worm counts prior to using them, there was no change in the worm burden after use. I don't know anything else about them I'm afraid but know that they are not recommended by the RCVS as an effective programme.

Well done on getting your worm counts done and being part of the growing number of people who don't throw chemicals into their horses without reason. I am horrified at the number of people who buy wormers from me without a care. I actively encourage worm counts and sell Westgate Labs 'wormcount in a box', which costs less than the average wormer and can prevent the horse getting unnecessary drugs pumped into it. My customers are quizzed on why they worm, what paddock management they have in place etc. I've only sold 2 boxes in the last 6 weeks but one of them is a regular and came in to tell me her mares wormcount was >50 so she didn't need worming - SUCCESS!!

Hope that helps

[gordo]

Thanks all. Off to get worm count done first, will let you know his results!!

[Mariaana]

Good luck with it.

It will be difficult if you get a result showing he has a high worm count - how to persuade the other field users to worm theirs (you could scare them by saying they might get worms from your horse... I have seen it works wonders!!!) but it all depends on the yard situation, whether you want to venture into anything like that.

Re: herbal wormers - diane, it is likely that if you have been trained to sell chemical wormers, they would not recommend herbal wormers (!!?!). My yard is participating in a large study of about 500 horses using worm counts and herbal wormers to tackle worm burdens - we are only 8 of them, but so far we've had mixed results although in the majority of cases, the herbs have helped to lower or clear the worm counts. So, based on 19 horses you quoted, I would not write it off.

[mandal]

Thanks for that Diane.
I think I'll 'wait and see' re herbal wormers.
I like to try and keep an open mind Mariaana so will'watch this space'.

[laura]

I am another that uses herbal wormer ... I can only speak for own results.

Although the worm count os generally low in our little herd of four .... on newbie had a high count on arrival and one other had a meduim count around the same time ....... both now join the others on negligible.

Whehter that is the wormer or the regual poo picking or a combination of both ....... well I guess one would have to do a proper research project on it with control groups etc to answert the question scientifically .... I know I looked inot a bit before we choose to do it so I might try go find the info I got then !!!

[Diane with Sam & Jubilee]

I can only tell the information I was given. It is a general AMTRA and BETA approved exam for saddlers who need to be licenced to sell wormers. I chose not just to take the exam but to attend the 2 day training course which is run totally independently to any manufacturer or governing body. We covered many things, all to do with managing the worm burden on animals. Apparently it is the VMC who have stated that herbal preparations cannot be called wormers as their efficacy has not been proven and, despite many companies doing trials, no conclusive evidence was provided. A trial was ordered and the results were not good.

I disagree that I was only trained to sell chemical wormers. That was only one part of the course. The main course covered the fact that the best management nowadays is limited use of chemicals and that pasture management and wormcounts are recommended. I was only on the course in October and I know the ban of using the word 'wormer' was only effective from about a month ago. As stated before, I am trying to educate my customers NOT to use wormers but to use pasture management and worm counts. If I had been given any proof that herbal preperations worked I would be happily stocking and recommending them but I can only work within the facts.

[gillb]

Gordo I agree with Diane that Equest will probably be the right choice. Like Diane I am SQP trained, it is a good and thorough course. Yours is a situation where you need a good programme and just test occasionally (when worming is due) to make sure there is no problem brewing.

Diane thank you, keep up the good work, educating owners is slow work but worthwhile.

To others, be very wary of cut price, so called services. Qualified? Member of Beta? Using the correct technique? Calculating the results correctly?
Would you choose your farrier on price alone? I certainly would not.

[gordo]

I don't know how I will deal with the possible high worm count as the old guy who owns the field doesn't want a big pile of horse poo, seems to prefer it scattered around!! I get so embarrased when people come and see Gordo beacuse of the mess. The other 2 being wormed - forget it. Pony owned by field owner, nuff said and the other mare is put in the field and left for months on end. The owner has NEVER visited her since she turned up few months back. RSPCA don't want to know as she looks 'well' but she's not.