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Post by janwilky on Nov 1, 2014 20:23:22 GMT 1
It's easy to get confused by conflicting advice, on forums and elsewhere on t'internet I think all you can do is read, read, read for yourself, listen to all the advice you get but then make your own mind up, trusting yourself to know your horse and to be intelligent enough to make the right decision. Then ignore those who say you're getting it all wrong . You might get it wrong sometimes, but at least you made a decision and tried out a course of action - if it turns out not to be the right one, you can change your mind and do something different. Obviously I'm not saying you shouldn't follow your vet's advice in an emergency, but most situations are not emergencies. You mention your gut feeling: I believe that learning to listen to our instincts, intuition or whatever you call it is very important with horses. The times when I haven't listened, or have listened to someone more experienced than me when my gut feeling is telling me they're wrong, it's almost always turned out that my intuition was right and I should have done what I knew deep down I needed to do. I mustn't be very bright, because that lesson has had to be reinforced quite a number of times...! Hee hee I sound very floaty don't I, I'm actually a pretty down-to-earth scientist! I think there's a lot that isn't known about PPID yet though, and I'm not convinced that vets or the advisory websites - while very helpful - have all the answers yet. If she's always been OK with apples and carrots and she isn't overweight or laminitic, I wouldn't worry too much. It's the sugar levels in the overall diet that matters for most horses. We have a small orchard and I've always given mine the odd apple after work without any problems, even my good doer. To my mind, a horse that can tolerate the sugars in grass is unlikely to have a problem with an occasional apple or carrot, as long as it's in sensible amounts.
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Post by Fussymare on Nov 1, 2014 22:34:27 GMT 1
Thanks Jan. No, doesn't sound floaty - makes complete sense to me. We will carry on as we are for now and see how it goes - and I will carry on enjoying every moment with her!
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Post by janwilky on Nov 2, 2014 9:21:54 GMT 1
What a gorgeous girl
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Post by southerncomfort on Nov 2, 2014 11:08:53 GMT 1
Hi, I just wanted to say that I ended up removing myself from a cushings related FB page as I found them almost cultish about the use of Prascend to the point that I began to wonder if drug company reps were amongst the users!! I was branded cruel because I decided to use Agnus Castus instead of Prascend (my girl cannot tolerate even the smallest amount and will stop eating and drinking). Anyway, my mare has been on Hilton Herbs Cush X (agnus castus & milk thistle) for a couple of years and I noticed a real improvement in her coat quality and zest for life almost immediately. She is a MUCH happier little pony now! It is entirely up to you whether you choose to medicate or not however if you choose to try agnus castus you might want to read this: www.laminitis.org/Vitex%20trial.htmlBest of luck with your beautiful mare!
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Post by Fussymare on Nov 2, 2014 15:04:20 GMT 1
Hello Southerncomfort. Thanks for the information. I did read about that trial, and that is what made me think about putting her on agnus castus, but then my friend who is doing the Care About Laminitis study said that there have been other trials where there was no evidence of it helping. I think what worried me was someone saying that using it could be detrimental - something about the effect on dopamine levels. I still feel as if I don't understand the condition well enough to make a decision. I keep reading lots, and still I hear conflicting advice and evidence. Think perhaps I had just better make a decision once my head clears!
We hacked this morning and she wasn't very forward on the ride - until we turned towards home! So sometimes I guess I'm blaming things on PPID that could just be down to her mood/frame of mind! She did a beautiful trot towards home even though her outbound walk had been decidedly sluggish!!
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Post by janwilky on Nov 2, 2014 21:28:20 GMT 1
Bambi didn't seem very forward yesterday either, but when we got back she was absolutely drenched in sweat and I realised that she had actually worked hard even though we'd mainly walked with a couple of longish trots - it's so mild at the moment, it's easy to forget when you're sitting on top how hot you get when you're exerting yourself in a winter coat. She and the horse we were riding with both stride out so well in walk that I hadn't realised how much effort she was making - we only notice when there's a third horse with us and they have to trot to keep up! She's getting clipped next week, which will no doubt be a cue for the weather to turn arctic...
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Post by Fussymare on Nov 3, 2014 0:11:11 GMT 1
It was a bit cooler here today as it was drizzly. She has had a trace clip and wasn't sweaty when we got back, so think it was her frame of mind rather than over exertion. It is unseasonably mild though, so it will be interesting to see how she is when it turns colder - she's often a bit sharper if it is chilly out and about!
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Post by marychick on Nov 3, 2014 10:31:32 GMT 1
Just wanted to say there is no valid evidence to suggest that Casteberry itself can make the condition worse/reduce dopamine. At worst it just doesn't do anything but hurt your bank account! As said I feed it to my mare in combination with a carefully regulated diet on the off chance it does work and it certainly hasn't made her worse and I have found nothing to say why it would...
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Post by Fussymare on Nov 3, 2014 16:11:11 GMT 1
Thanks Marychick. I have bought some to try - if I notice a difference then all well and good, and if not then I won't continue with it. Lots of people seem to be having positive experiences with it, so definitely worth trying in my opinion. I might pop on the other forum and ask why it would make things worse.
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Post by janwilky on Nov 3, 2014 18:48:33 GMT 1
I did try Agnus castus with Coco and Bambi last year but didn't notice a discernible change, but then they're both well so that's perhaps not surprising. It's also used for hormonal mares/riggy geldings, and I tried Bambi on it earlier this year to see if it helped with her mareishness when ridden (she can be a bit naughty with other horses ) but again it didn't seem to help. What it did help with, though, and quite spectacularly, was Lucas's riggy gelding behaviour - just a few months on it and his stallion-like behaviours disappeared for good (thankfully!). I wouldn't rule out trying it again for low-level PPID symptoms in the future. I believe the liquid form may be more effective, so it might be worth going straight for that rather than the powder. Also, the powder does taste a bit bitter which might be a factor if Fussymare is fussy . Having said that, I used the powder and mine ate it OK as long as I introduced it gradually.
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Post by Fussymare on Nov 4, 2014 11:26:58 GMT 1
LOL Jan! Fussymare is not fussy when it comes to food! But I went for the Cushy-VX which is liquid. Just waiting for it to arrive, and will be interesting to see if it makes any difference.
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Post by janwilky on Nov 4, 2014 11:39:50 GMT 1
Let us know if it does - it's really useful to hear what works for people. I apparently tried to poison all three of mine this morning . Nothing to do with PPID, I'm trialling Mycosorb (a toxin binder) following a hunch about why I always have more problems in the autumn than any other time of year. Three seconds after putting their buckets down there was a massive scuffle in the shelter, followed by Lucas running up to me with his mouth wide open, shaking his head up and down and looking utterly appalled! Err, it doesn't taste too good then?
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Post by portiabuzz on Nov 4, 2014 11:45:00 GMT 1
Aww lucas can just picture that !
Sent from my SM-G800F using proboards
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Post by Fussymare on Nov 14, 2014 18:46:53 GMT 1
Thought I'd hop on and give a bit of an update now she's on the agnus castus liquid. We started last Thursday, and she has been on a loading dose for a week. Didn't notice her being hugely forward last weekend when riding, although she did feel quite springy in trot - but we were hacking alone so it's hard to tell as she's always more forward on her own. However - twice this week she has cantered across the field when I have arrived to give hay. I can't remember the last time she cantered across! This morning she saw me from the far corner of the field, whinnied, and then came charging to the fence. As I took the haynets in to the field to tie them up to the post, she was prancing around me, plunging and shaking her head! Her field companion just walked over normally, so I don't think they were excessively hungry. Is it the agnus castus? I really hope so. When I get on tomorrow I should know for sure.
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Post by janwilky on Nov 14, 2014 23:00:01 GMT 1
Sounds as though she's feeling well Do let us know how she is when you ride her tomorrow.
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