Tying problems

[bramblesmum]

Im a glutton for punnishment and have taken on a stunning TB mare that was going to be pts as too much for novice owner (he cant do anymore than walk on a safe cob but bought her because she was pretty) she has been ridden and schooled and is labelled as unpredictible as one day shell be fine the next shell be spooking at everything.

This little mare has been fed up on feed (so were now on conditioning but calming feed) her eyes were popping out bless her, but shes a good heart, she works lovely on the lunge but I want to work on her confidence first as she acts like at some point someone has given her a good smacking, however she does something that im not sure how to fix

When you tie her up and are stood by her shes fine, however when you walk away she tries to untie herself if she cant she then bucks eventually she gives up but im concerned shes going to hurt herself and I dont want to frighten her ideally.

Shes a lovely mare, am hoping shell be a ride for me in time but if not ill find her a good experienced home, but at least for the moment shes somewhere where she can be looked after.

Any suggestions on fixing the tying issue? I do want to address it as I feel if she ever had to move on its something she needs to do properly.

Shes 6yrs old.

[Hannah]

Does tying her with a haynet make a difference?

[bramblesmum]

no shes not a big eater to be honest xx it almost seems like a toddler tantrum due to no attention, she is a bit of a princess in that respect. Shes also the same if on her own on the yard or if the others are in with her

[Hannah]

If she is ok with you being there, I would think about running a lunge line through the tie-up ring and holding on to it. You can then move away gradually, maybe going back and giving her a treat and then moving away again. Almost like advance and retreat but the other way round! Also you could work on ground tying or leaving her eating a feed on her own.

[jill]

Teach her to ground tie, in the same way you would teach a dog to stay. Place her, step away, step back and reward. Gradually increase the time/distance you are away - if she moves, quietly but firmly put her back where she was, and only reward her when she is in that spot.
Once she has got the idea, add a cue - a word like "Wait" or "stay there" or a cue like dropping the end of the lead rein on the ground, and then you can use that when you are tying her up (or even rely on your training and not tie her

[Deleted]

Ground tying is a good idea, but I'd also want to make sure that she can tie up and know how to cope if she does have a panic when tied.

First make sure your tie up point is solid - I've worked with horses who have ripped the sides of stables and the like, so really check that this can't happen.

Step 1 is to make sure your horse understand how to release herself from pressure if you stand in front of her and ask her to walk towards you by a pull on the line. This is important as it will be the same feel she'll get pulling back - I know she's not quite standard pulling back but she'll get the same feel when moving around.

I'd then use a longline, not just a 12ft lead line but a 20-30 foot longline. One end clipped onto the horse as normal, then pass the other end through your tie up ring and keep hold of it. You are now in control of the pressure. I would then ask her to stand a few paces back from the tie up ring and use a light pull on the line passing through it to ask her to take a step towards it. Release the very second she thinks of moving forwards. If she does start to pull back, control the pressure so that it remains constant. Greater pressure will increase her pull back, a release will reinforce the pulling.

That should teach her how to deal with physical pressure when she hits it moving around.

The next thing is for you to deal with the reaction to you walking away. Remember this is also pressure, and you can control the amount of pressure and the release here too. Go to walk away, but step by step and keeping a close eye on her. The moment you get any sign of concern - raised head, tension, worried eye - stop where you are and wait for her to accept and relax. All you want her to do to start off with is show that she understood that you are going no further and that she needn't take her behaviour any further either. Later you could ask her for more relaxation. At the point she has given you what you want, you then release the pressure by returning to her.

You should be able to build this up to the point that she remains relaxed no matter how far you go, but work as slowly as she needs, and make sure you manage things so that you have everything you need when she's tied up, for example. If you need to go and get something, take her with you until the lesson is learned. Any panics will set her back.

That should help.

[outoftheblue]

Very good advice. I cannot believe that people dont teach their horses to be tied up as a yearling. Its an important part of learning for horses just as picking up feet etc etc and yet I see so many who dont have these basic things well established. Good luck.

[ladynowak]

Jan 18, 2013 13:34:57 GMT 1 bramblesmum said:

no shes not a big eater to be honest xx it almost seems like a toddler tantrum due to no attention, she is a bit of a princess in that respect. Shes also the same if on her own on the yard or if the others are in with her

My Ebony was very similar. He didn't do anything that would hurt himself, he just had learnt with his old owners that if he kicked up a fuss his owner would come running. Which is what he wanted. I tried slowly slowly with him on a lunge line, bit that didn't get us very far. I went to a Mark Rashid clinic and asked for advice and it surprised me, tie him up and leave him until he settled. Had nothing to loose, so I did just that. I tied him up, his friends were there too, he created absolute hell and was dripping with sweat, but the second he stopped and just stood I went over, gave him a pat and turned them all out.

It did take over an hour for him to figure it out, but I've not had a problem since.

[jill]

I understand the rationale behind that ladynowak and I have huge respect for Mark Rashid having had my horse at two of his clinics, but it is a risky strategy, especially if the footing isn't great. I know of one young horse who fell and broke his neck during the struggle, although it has to be said his owner had left him for a few minutes. And if they are seriously at risk and you have to intervene that reinforces the learning that having a paddy gets attention.
There is a way of passing a lunge rein or similar from the headcollar, round the quarters (using a roller or saddle to stop it falling below the hocks) and back through the headcollar to the tie ring. That means that each time the horse pulls back it applies pressure from behind, encouraging the horse to move forward away from the pressure. But I do agree that really the best and only way is to teach the horse to yield to pressure.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't use that method either. In your case it worked out ok in the end, but I would question the ethics of putting that much stress onto a horse when you don't need to, and I would also be concerned not only about the risks of physical injury but also of making the situation worse. After an hour of creating hell, or being in hell, there is a real risk of you making the horse fearful of being tied up at all, or of the headcollar, or whatever they perceive to be part of that awful experience. They make associations so easily.

[bramblesmum]

Thanks guys, liz as soon as the snow has cleared up here I will get cracking as that sounds like a method that will suit us, I have noticed she reacts to any pressure on the rope when at all stressed, as when she came in the other night she was a bit concerned leaving her herd to go into her stable, I gave her a gentle tug on the rope and she reared, last night instead of any pressure on the rope I just talked to her and she walked in gently, so think we have a few lessons to learn on the ground yet, am going to work through the perfect manners with her when the snow melted too.

[Deleted]

You might want to get her poll/jaw/teeth/etc checked. She may well have actually hurt herself or have some such problem, and her reaction to pressure might be current pain.

Then, because she's pulled back when someone has left she could now associating people leaving with pain.

Not saying it definitely is, but it's enough of a possibility that I personally would want to rule it out sooner rather than later.

[bramblesmum]

will get her booked in with the dentist, would he be able to acertain re the poll or should it be a vet job do you think?

[Deleted]

I'd probably ask a physio/chiropractor. And maybe them first then EDT - the gag & opening jaw might hit something that hurts, so best get that ruled out before.

[ladynowak]

It all comes down to individual horses, how well you know that horse, the circumstances and how much experience you have.

There is a vast difference between a horse who is truly scared of been tied up/ hasn't learned to give to pressure and one who has a learnt behaviour knowing that he can create (strike out, shout, swing side to side, kick out, paw the ground, kick the wall/door anything he can) to get the desired affect from a human.

I doubt very much that he enjoyed been tied up and left, but then again he reacted the same way when you did the nicey nicey slowly slowly approach. The only lasting impression it made was that he has stood nicely to be tied ever since.