Sick Horses getting attacked by other horses?

[Kelly Marks]

I just read an article saying that if a new horse is sick and introduced to the herd the other horses will know and might attack it.
I've had no experience of this at all (i.e. never knowingly turned a sick horse out in a group or heard of such a thing).
Has anyone else had this experience?

Or had a sick horse out with others and found the opposite?

[wendyinfrance]

What I've seen with my blind horses, or if Lutine has been ill in the past, is that they can't fend off an aggressive horse like a well and fit horse can and so they get bullied mercilessly. That's why I had to remove our ponies from the herd because Jolie is, frankly, a varmint with the others at the best of times and if they're vulnerable for some reason, she'll just keep on pummelling them whenever the fancy takes her. I once saw her trot right across the paddock to just go and bite someone and give them a kicking. Obviously, she was removed then too! Before the horses went blind, Jolie lived out with everyone else because they just put her back in her place but once they lost their sight, she could take advantage. She may not be typical though because she wasn't properly socialised as a young horse. Lutine was also bullied and allowed to starve in her previous home because she was turned out with others as a sick horse and there was only one hay feeder. So she never got a look in.

On the other hand, I've seen horsey friends look after one another too. Mascagne used to look out for Crystal. If Crystal didn't feel confident enough to go down into the field, Mascagne would call her and trot back up and then stay with her. And Pacha will now herd Lutine around - in a nice way - when they're turned out in the big field. If she starts trotting or cantering and is heading for a fence, he'll catch up and head her out of the way of it. He's especially attentive and nice during the breeding season and less so in winter when she's not coming into season.

[specialized]

I think in a strong pair bond the stronger partner will protect the weaker, but a fresh weak horse is likely to be attacked by any horse higher in the pecking order and if it cannot protect itself it would be in trouble.
In nature this occurs with most animals and sick animals are driven out of the herd as they make the whole herd weaker and more vulnerable. Pack hunters are the same and even chickens - who are probably the most vicious of all.

[antares]

I've never put a new sick horse into a herd but I did notice some different behaviours in my wee herd when my old boy was sick.

He was the herd leader up until his final day but when I turned him out that day it was clear he was not right, was very weak and disorientated and kept laying down. The first time he laid down in the field the others went over to him but after that the more dominant one kept the youngster away at the opposite end of the field. They didnt come over again until he had been pts a few hours later.

[wabuska]

I rescued a skin and bone nine month old ISH some years ago and having done everything to check he was relatively alright, just weak and after a few days over the line (a week at least), let him in with my very healthy horse of the same age. He chased him unrelentingly and then knocked him to the ground with a shoulder, where the youngster stayed, the other strong youngster rearing over him, teeth bared, ears flat, the lot. I had to wire us into a corner and shocked us both in the process as the line was on, but there was no time. I sat by his head, and he got up after about 15 minutes. It was really upsetting and not good humoured at all.

The aggression was not repeated after the weak one got better and the attacker was not prone to that sort of thing again. The weak one turned out to be a very nasty problem horse.. not his fault.. bad start... but he nearly killed me with a double barrel to the pelvis when he was three in an open field while I was dung picking. He flew down the hill and went for me. I wonder did Dance pick up on him being 'off'..

[Kelly Marks]

Thank you for these (and looking forward to more). The only thing I can imagine in a real life wild herd is the sick animal would just get left behind. Why would other horses attack it if it's not a threat? That doesn't mean it couldn't happen of course.

[potto]

Sick animals are a threat in an enclosed herd... they need the best food and more to recover and get well so take from the others, there is a possible risk of spreading disease and they are slow to respond to any dangers so pose a risk generally and cause worry and will need extra protection? who knows if they give off smells to predators of animal down... Do some horses see it like this? Possibly, if it rains and gets wet and flooded given the choice most would move to higher dryer ground i reckon.

I have to say of the attacks that i have witness most have been surrounding limited food supply. The others have been undiagnosed illness which has come to light at a later date, for example, liver neurological type disease or a horse chasing other horses looking for things to rub on as had very bad mites and very run down. Soon settled when mites treated and itching resolved. be interested to see results of this thread tho.

[joflo]

Yes. When our youngster was (unbeknown to us) dying, she got bullied off food by other herd members. It was during the cold spell last winter and although it was upsetting for us, it's just survival of the fittest in action I suppose.

[mandal]

I was once alerted to the fact that little Maisy (mini Shetland) wasn't 100% when I saw Bracken taking liberties with her. Nudging her and sparing nose to nose. He is generally wary of her and gives her a wide berth despite being 15hh. It turned out she was a bit sore on her feet with lamintis to which she is prone.

Toby who had long term degenerative illness would get bullied a bit by the other small ones, so spent a lot of his last few months separated. I do think it was a case of neither were able to defend themselves and the others were very soon aware.

I have never introduced a sick new horse so can't comment on that one but instinctively I wouldn't mix a sick horse with an established herd.

[Amanda Seater]

Last year Ned was starting to get bitten and chased out of the herd by the others he was in his late 20's it was his time :0(

We recently weaned Dancer and foal and she was rather shouty and a little distressed this weaning time - the others were decidedly grumpy, chasey and bitey with her - a few days later, she is calm and they are accepting of her again

Moo is getting left out but not attacked now as his blindness shifts to the other eye.

[calekio]

May is rising 17 now, chronic laminitic, cushings, insulin resistance and arthritis. but all of last year and still today how the herd treat her is quite a sight to behold. She lives with 10 other miniatures, various ages.. from young playful ones who are quite low in the pecking order.. to the old ones... they all bicker and fight but every single ponies seems to respect this old girl.. sort of a like an old matriarch. They won't fight over hay with her.. they may try and make it clear this is theres... but then they'l either share with her or move to another piles.. they make exception for her and no-one really bickers with her, the youngsters who play quite rough quickly learn she will play with them.. but its gentle play none of the rough and tumble stuff (she will make it quite clear them where the boundries are) she isn't a top dog in the herd by any means but its very much as if they know she is a old girl and all seem to look after her and treat her like an elder in the herd... its a really is a lovely sight to see. It did make me wonder that when her times comes.. which it won't be that far away how the herd will react to it... i've already noticed the herd leader (my ex stallion) will indicate me to something wrong with her... if she isn't right.. he stands away from the herd, i suppose very much like a herd stallion would watch over his herd...

[marianne]

I haven't turned out a new sick horse with any of my lot, but I do know if any of them is under the weather or more usually lame they get picked on more.

Jan 17, 2013 10:13:01 GMT 1 Kelly Marks said:

Why would other horses attack it if it's not a threat?

I assumed it is was question of trying to move up the pecking order, ie taking advantage of the usually stronger horse while he was less able to defend himself.

My naughty little pony (bottom of the heap) bullied my old TB mercilessly when he had an abscess and was hobbling around, so much so I had to put the TB in an adjoining paddock for a fortnight so he could have some peace.

[calekio]

Reading all these comments... i'm beginning to think i have an unusal herd... as any member who is ill.. or lame.. is looked after not bullied.. and when they return they get a lovely welcoming greating and are stright back in the same place in the pecking order...

That said... any new horse is met with a severe threat and intent to kill!!! They are a very tight little herd who don't like new comers at all!

[cuffey]

A number of years ago, an old pony was thrown out of the herd when he started to fail
I was very sad--he had been there the longest, was double the age of the others and a complete gentleman and was the smallest (my sons ex gymkhana pony) when he was fitter he just dodged and did gymkhana turns out of the way.
They were really rough, going at him with teeth at feeding time and at any other time if he came near them
He had to be separated which suited him as one stable could be used as a field shelter in a small paddock so he had the choice of in or out and did not get as stiff if not fully stabled at night
He had Cushings with excessive thirst, long coat which I clipped as otherwise he abscessed under it but he never had laminitis.

An older story--my Dad had 2 heavy work horses (Shires) and one was blind, the other its eyes and never allowed the blind one to walk into fences etc.

[Deleted]

I haven't introduced a sick one into a herd but normally Henry is the boss of Talin, will get first pick at food etc and will move Talin around. When Henry had a chest infection last year Talin took full advantage and got to the stage where he'd run to the food first and try to chase Henry off of it (I don't think he ever moved Henry away but made a big show of trying to and some days Henry would stop and wait for Talin to go away before proceeding). Once Henry was back to full health he immediately put Talin back in his place and it's stayed like that ever since

I've seen it shown in wild herd animals that an injured member may be left behind, but also that injured/ ill members may be chased out of the herd if they are likely to draw predators to the herd.