The dreaded mud fever topic again!

[Deleted]

Sorry this is going to be long and I've got lots of questions!

Talin had a little MF which (probably) caused his cellulitis two weeks ago. Blood results, temp, character etc all back to normal now but his legs are still filling at night if they're not wrapped so I'm still bandaging them. I have to wash his legs and towel dry them each night as clearly I can't bandage over mud.

I treated his MF and he was free of it last week so I started putting baby oil on his legs for turnout and all was fine, much easier to hose off etc.

But today he's got more MF scabs on one heel I have been absolutely meticulous about the oil, I haven't missed that bit so now I'm thinking that's clearly not enough.

So I've got Pig oil and sulpher to use hoping that might work better than the baby oil. But I'm wondering if oiling his legs is really the best route.

First issue is that the oil has turned his ergots totally squishy and I'm concerned about it doing the same to his perioples and hoof walls. It was definitely the oil, not the mud/ wet.

Second issue is his legs aren't very hairy so I'm not convinced the oil is stopping his skin getting wet (hence the appearance of new scabs today), and it takes them ages to dry; some mornings when he's not bandaged I have found his legs still damp from the night before.

Third issue, I can keep toweling his legs when I'm there at night but longer term I don't want to be stuck going every night just to do that and I don't think it's fair to ask the yard staff to.

So I've been looking at things like thermatex leg wraps, thinking that at least in this very cold weather they should help his legs dry quicker and therefore stay dry for longer overnight.... but they're a lot of money and obviously I don't know if they'll work!

Diet (because I know you'll ask ) he's already on forageplus winter balancer, has been for about 2-3 months and if anything he seems to have got worse on it. Our haylage is provided one bale at a time so probably not worth testing that. Out on very little grass in a huge field during the day and has hifi in a bucket morning and night. He's a really nice weight, vet was very impresed with his condition.

Ideas please? (and tea and cake for anyone who made it this far lol)

[Deleted]

p.s. the baby oil on his legs isn't stopping the mud getting to his skin, I think it just makes it easier to wash off and means if he walks through the mud it slides off when he walks around afterwards.

[kafee]

I'm sorry to hear the baby oil isn't doing the job, I don't know what to suggest other than using the pig oil and suphur instead for the time being. It worked for Inca, but you've got a different horse in a different situation. I have heard good reports of 'Mud guard', but it is expensive. Good luck, I know you'll find a solution.

[marychick]

MF is a hot topic at our yard at the mo! Think so many horses are getting it because it's been so wet this year

I have a friend who swears by the thermatex leg wraps becuase her horse used to get terrible MF and they have put a stop to it. BUT she did have to buy 2 pairs which is obviosuly expensive and take one pair home every night to wash and dry becuase apparently they dont dry on the yard and she does wash his legs every night and uses copious ammounts of Aloe vera so I don't know if it's a magic cure or any less time consuming?

I have also have friend that works at a vets practice and she says they've had some horses getting cellulitis because of rubbing wet boots She said they're having lots of problems with MF at the moment and the usual fixes aren't working so the vets are trying to see if they can come up with their own concoction. I'll let you know if they develop anything seems to be a bit of trial and error to see what works for each horse at the mo.

[mags]

Not sure if you've tried this one already, but I've been using Filta-bac as a barrier cream all summer on my pony mare. She got MF-like scabs on her three pink legs, probably photo-sensitivity related. With smaller, isolated scabs, the cream (lathered on generously) softened the scabs so they came off. Once off, the cream stays on for days and did a very good job preventing a reoccurrence. My routine was to wash/soak/descab once a week (initially, while scabs were there), towel off, then rub in filta-bac. Then a second application of the filta-bac throughout the week to top it up. The stuff if white (also a sunscreen), so it's pretty obvious when it has been worn off. My pony mare lives out 24/7, in quite wet conditions this year and this regime really helped to get her legs scab free and keep them that way. Not sure if this was primarily because the cream also provides sunscreening.
Filta-bac has been developed as a barrier cream for animals, and I got put onto it by two friends, both veterinary nurses. When considering my options, this reassured me that it would be okay to use it long-term and that it wouldn't cause more problems with the skin.

[cuffey]

My personal opinion--quit washing
Quit brushing wet legs
All it does is weaken the skin even more

I have had one really bad case--my fault--horse cut leg, turned out bandaged and booted to keep cut clean, leg blew up and massive mud fever problem needing antibiotics and box rest

I would leave mud to dry overnight--then brush the worst off, then rub in eg udder cream, sudocreme etc before turnout.
mags solution of a once a week thorough clean for an out 24/7 sounds good.

[bertie666]

Ive heard of people using a hairdryer to dry legs before on cool settings?!

Im with Cuffey - I leave legs well alone, dont brush mud off either and not had a problem.

what about those golly galosh things to keep his legs dry?

[annabelle h]

I've never been a fan of washing off legs and had never had mud fever, but after cellulitis and now mud fever recently, I am a washer. Never say never! There just isn't any other way of monitoring the scabs on my horse, and we really don't want cellulitis again!

I've been using Pioneer Herbal Liquid Soap which is very oily, so you can either use it to get mud/sudocrem gloop off like a soap, or smother it on and leave it on like an oil. The herbs in it mean it's antifungal & antibacterial. Would never use a brush on wet legs, alas poor fingernails . .

Mud fever and filling legs suggests an immune/lymph/liver problem? Perhaps try a liver tonic like GH Restore or something from Trinity. I put my mare on yea sacc and Restore after the cellulitis and I think it has helped.

Someone lent me leg wraps and I've been putting on sudocrem then clingfilm then wraps on top, while she comes in for a few hours in the day (want her out as much as possible). They are quite good but perhaps make legs over-warm adn are not as supportive as bandages.

Have you thought about bringing in during the day and turning out at night? Would still help the mud fever and would help solve the leg filling problem.

Would not use turnout boots because I can't see how they can avoid getting mud up the inside and scratching the skin. . .

[Lulu]

I used keratex mud sheild and it worked for mine, as it's dry, she healed quicker with the mud shield powder than she did with creams.

[annabelle h]

Also . . I read somewhere that a deficiency of copper can contribute to mud fever. Interestingly, a couple of weeks before the mud fever I had run out of copper sulphate.

NRC 2007 guidelines suggest about 100mg a day of copper (about 0.8g of copper sulphate/day) so that may be worth trying.

Even if your haylage is in separate bales I wonder if it's worth collecting some across several weeks and testing it as one sample . . after all that would reflect your "average" forage, even if it's in hindsight? None of the commercial balancers had anything like the mineral levels I needed to balance mine.

[june]

That's a difficult one. What you are doing isn't working so change one thing at a time and see what helps. First thing I'd be inclined to try is to stop the washing and bandage over mud, if you need to bandage. Despite its name, it isn't the mud itself that causes the mud fever, its the bacteria that get into the skin when it is wet. Washing and towel drying will rub more of those into the skin.

Some horses - quite a few actually - are allergic to baby oil. That could be making it worse. But still, change one thing at a time so you can see what it is that makes the difference!

[mandal]

Dec 5, 2012 20:44:10 GMT 1 june said:

Some horses - quite a few actually - are allergic to baby oil.

Me too, cant have the stuff in the house. ;D

Hope you get it sorted Michelle. Such a worrying time with the swelling as well. x

[jen1]

washing legs bad! leaving them alone good, however, when they have it its best to wash with salt water, get them really dry, then keratex powder and then flamazine, its £50 for a pot but it has silver in it for healing, and just use flamazine every day

[Deleted]

In the past I would have agreed with those of you saying don't wash... but if I hadn't washed his legs last night I wouldn't have found the new scabs so early... I know for certain they weren't there yesterday morning. I never brush wet legs.

If he were coming in with semi-dry mud I would also be more tempted to leave it to avoid wetting the skin again but he has to walk through wet slop that goes over his fetlocks to come in so his legs and skin are already sodden so hosing them isn't making the skin any more wet.

Annabelle - Talin had blood tests on the night the cellulitis blew up and again on Monday just gone and he had an infection - cellulitis - which is now gone. The rest of his bloods are normal so not a liver issue in his case. The vet said the continued swelling is likely to be because his legs initially swelled very quickly and were very sore so he will have ruptured cells and those cells will just take time to repair so I don't think it's a lymph problem as such, hopefully the swelling should clear up in the next couple of weeks then I just have the ongoing MF prevention. He's already on forageplus balancer which is about as high spec as they come, good idea about picking samples from a few bales though

[Deleted]

Dec 5, 2012 18:56:46 GMT 1 bertie666 said:

Ive heard of people using a hairdryer to dry legs before on cool settings?!

Im with Cuffey - I leave legs well alone, dont brush mud off either and not had a problem.

what about those golly galosh things to keep his legs dry?

Yes I've had a hairdryer suggested - there aren't enough hours in the day I'd rather try the thermatex leg wraps.

I've never been convinced that turnout chaps would actually stop the wet getting in - the mud in our gateway is like brown water so it'll get in anywhere.