Liver supplements

[jennyb]

Hello All,

You may remember that last year I had bloods done on Gazdag when he had his annual vaccination and they showed one raised liver enzyme. This resolved itself, we rechecked in six weeks and it was at normal levels again so we left him be.

He has just had annual jabs again and now two liver enzymes are raised, as well as CK which is a muscle enzyme but to be fair that one isn't very high and he was messing about when she was trying to get blood - he had already bent the vaccination needle!

We are going to retest in six weeks and I will try to dig out his lab reports from last year, so we can compare the levels. I am hoping that I kept them! We think there is a chance it could be related to his old grazing, I moved him two weeks ago and the old place had become a bit marshy in all the rain so I suppose the land could have been a bit deficient. Also another pony on that land became slightly anaemic and had red cell for a while so at the moment this is prime suspect.

However, if the problem does not rectify itself I would like to do a bit of research into feed supplements to support liver function. Does anyone know of any? Milk thistle is the only one which springs to mind immediately.

I'd like to leave well alone until the next bloods though so I don't distort the results. Just thinking in advance!

He was also wormed about a week before the bloods were done. Can Pramox affect liver function temporarily?

[Amanda Seater]

jenny - I always protect Romeo( and any other poss imune sensitive resident) when worming with Global herbs detox a week prior to and after worming
Also I never do a combined wormer for any of them any more - I ( and others) believe it is just too much for thier systems. Sorry it is a bit after the fact..

When Romes was poorly we gave him Milk thistle - you can now buy an extract or tincture and Echinacea also now available as tincture.

If you can't get them as that make a tea out of them to feed them - they work quicker that way.

personally I wouldn't worry about scewing results as my priority woud be for healing and boosting what is now.

I hope he is OK

[mandal]

I used a milk thistle tincture for Toby with raised liver enzymes.
He had PLE and was on vitamin b injections etc. but his levels did drop using the milk thistle. It may have been a coincidence of course and other treatments and dietary changes may have been helping him as well.

[jennyb]

Thanks Amanda, that's useful to know re worming. I think last year's bloods will have been very close to his wormer too, although I didn't diarise it so can't say for sure. Perhaps a link there....

I want to leave him be and see what the new grazing does. Another horse on the current yard was blood tested recently for another issue and showed raised muscle enzymes (he'd had a trauma from a kick) but no liver issues, which leads me to think that this grazing is fine - it certainly looks a load better than the old stuff! I'm thinking milk thistle for after the next set of bloods, maybe a short course for a boost if everything else is ok, or a longer course if the enzymes are still high. They're not high in the grand scheme of things, just higher than normal. The next bloods will tell me what the new grazing is doing for him and I'll then be in a position to assess what to do next.

I'm becoming quite a fan of annual bloods, he looks a picture of health and there are no indications with behaviour that he is not quite right, so it just goes to show.... Prey animals are awfully good at hiding things!

[emma]

My miniature pony had such a bad liver in July they were going to put him down! We started him on ekyrenal and hepatosyl and the results were amazing. Not cheap but it worked, sadly we lost him in October to unrelated problems. My other pony had one raised enzyme so we treated him with the same he was re-tested last week and all was normal

[jen1]

Pramox is quite aggressive my vets tend to err on the side of caution and don't advise giving it to horses with problems, can second global herbs restore to help prevent problems

[cookie]

Hi Jenny, we had raised liver enzymes two summers ago, ours were bad enough that vet wanted to biopsy, altho we never did in the end, long story. Got the all clear about 3 months later.

Used milk thistle, but vet also prescribed a tonic and cut as much protein out of his diet as poss.

I'm also thinking of doing bloods with vacs this year as your not the first I've heard for it to show a niggle and the quicker you can pick these things up...


Sent from my GT-I9100 using proboards

[jennyb]

Exactly cookie, I think it's only fair for Mr G as I'm demanding quite a lot from him work-wise now so it's right that I make sure he's in tip top health.

His diet is very low protein anyway. Will think carefully about wormers for next season now when I've done the next blood tests, I do faecal egg counts throughout the season anyway but I like to dose him annually for tape and encysted small redworm. He can just have two separate wormers if it's better for his system, I think with Global Herbs stuff at the same time!

[Jobi-Wan Kenobi]

Global Herbs' RagAid may help, but I much prefer Feedmark's Milk Thistle seed for general liver support and feed it year round, using RagAid as necessary.

[Kelly Marks]

Hi JennyB
What exactly is the specification you ask for when you get his bloods done? What do you pay for this? (I'm always interested what different people pay!)
I give mine Restore twice a year - I have no real evidence it works but have often been recommended it and my boys always seem to look well. I would love to get some evidence of before and after bloods with this (since thankfully none of them seem to care about needles at all).

[jennyb]

Hi Kelly,
Gazdag doesn't care about needles but he was very interested in the clippy cloppy hoof noises coming from outside the barn and was worried that he might miss something, hence the messing around! Lucky he doesn't mind needles really as she struggled to find a vein....
I just asked for a general health check, so they looked at everything, biochem was all normal but the internal organs were a bit amiss. I paid for the vaccinations too, so you would be looking at call out + examination (these vary massively from vet to vet!), then I paid a nominal fee for them to actually take the bloods (I think less than £10), I haven't been billed for the lab fees yet though but I'm expecting in the region of £60-70 for those. So it's not a cheap thing and will cost over £100 all in. I see it as part of his annual health costs though.
Hope this helps :-)

[poppyandbea]

with bea it was sticking to a low protein and low oil diet now veteran, conditioning or competition feeds either
feeding milkthistle and very good all round supplement and brewers yeast or yea-sac

i also have had her on restore but she wasnt teseted then to see a different
she was tested while on this and this and a human blood pressure tablet saved her life they think hers was lingering prob had it when i bought her as a yearling then came to a head at 4/5 when her behaviour got really bad
www.petdispensary.co.uk/shop/hepatosyl_equine_500mg.html

her levels are never going to be 100% normal but keep improving.
Last christmas we thought we had to pts but thankfully it was swollen legs due to a virus and raised temp and although bad infection as in red and white cells all over the place liver had improved some more and clotting test you have to ask for that test was normal , but with her shes got to be managed carefully with her diet now but shes in works and vet said shes well enought to compete although im not well enought to take her out and about and shes a different horse now ;D


intresting thought about the restore when i spoke to global herbs they said for bea the rag aid would be better as theres added milk thistle in that but its not in the restore !

[Kelly Marks]

Thanks JennyB and Poppy well done with Bea - glad to hear she pulled through. Kx

[horselover522]

My mare had high liver enzymes as a result of a batch of hay that was very high in Iron, Manganese and Selenium, so it could be worth having your hay/grazing tested.

99% of the balancers/supplements on the market do not take into account the typical analysis of the hay/grazing we have in this country.

I now have a feeding plan based on my hay analysis (So supplement Copper, Zinc, Phosphorus and Magnesium) and liver enzymes are now back to normal.