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Post by specialsparkle3 on May 28, 2012 11:51:07 GMT 1
A very good post lisa p
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Post by mandal on May 28, 2012 11:51:49 GMT 1
Yes, great post Lisap, my feelings entirely. It is not wrong to question something, and Monty has done absolutely what we respect him for - answered the question. Exactly.
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Post by Liz on May 28, 2012 11:54:48 GMT 1
Lisap - I wish I could be so succinct in putting my thoughts to paper! What you say reflects my viewpoint so well.
Monty - great respect to you and your wife for the enormous work you have put in to the welfare and happiness of two and four legged beings!
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Post by wabuska on May 28, 2012 11:54:53 GMT 1
Yes and I hear you Lisa, but it didn't end there. He answered the charges at great pains and in minute detail to have his honesty and motivation questioned AGAIN regarding the length of the video, his judgment etc.
He's 77, it was 6 years ago... I can't remember my own daughter's name sometimes and I'm several decades younger. In terms of the basic respect directed to anyone (alright I do happen to think age/experience/effort merits respect) especially the inspiration for the IH movement surely that's tough treatment? Here we go again. I give up and I do like and respect just about all of you even when we don't agree.
I don't regard myself as a peer of Monty Roberts, but I feel able to ask the question, and we did. As I had suggested the response I feel disturbed that he's been called out twice through that thread in a less than respectful, open-minded manner.
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Post by Lorraine L on May 28, 2012 11:57:16 GMT 1
We need a 'Like' button so that i can click on Mandal and Lisa's posts.
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Post by wabuska on May 28, 2012 12:12:56 GMT 1
Agree about the LIKE button.Lorrain.. can we have that on the DG? Sometimes you just want to make a quick acknowledgment.
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Post by mrsfields on May 28, 2012 12:21:48 GMT 1
i kept out of the other thread as it made me sad to see how people are so quick to judge - there's often more to things than meets the eye, especially in a short youtube clip! none of the posters here knew the background, the conversations that went on before and after in a very complex and tricky context, none of them could see into Monty's heart and mind, and i find some of the comments very cruel and unkind keep up the good work Monty, you've done so much for horses (and people) all over the world - listen to the horses' feedback, not the critics!
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Post by Ally S on May 28, 2012 12:33:16 GMT 1
There are always a few 'Monty bashers'. No idea why, but they look for any opportunity to find fault. Look for the 'bad' and you'll find it!
I for one really appreciated your answer Monty. I also really appreciate the fact that we can question and receive explanations. I know some people think we all follow like sheep. This proves we don't. And that's fab because otherwise we may as well join the Moonies!
Monty, I can't put into words how much I value your work. Thank you!
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Post by sarahbing on May 28, 2012 12:58:49 GMT 1
I find Monty inspirational and life changing ;D Support posted x I think though that we need to have a 'chat' amongst ourselves and discuss the tone of some of the threads on here. It is our DG and are we happy with it? Do some of the rules need changing amending or reinforcing without censoring anyone's right to speak? Time and time again, I read things that make me wince on here. If we treated our horses the way we treat each other sometimes, we would be hard pushed to call ourselves 'Intelligent Horsepeople' Discussion is a vital tool of learning, but freedom of speech is a privilege that should not be abused by lack of consideration and courtesy, tolerance and regard for others Just a thought
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Post by mandal on May 28, 2012 13:04:33 GMT 1
I'm sorry to put this on your thread Kanga but I don't wish to create another one or a row. I am feeling a bit (lot) for Yann as his name was singled out by Monty.
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Post by highlanderpony2002 on May 28, 2012 13:14:05 GMT 1
I am sure that everyone here is sad to think we may have inadvertently upset Monty as I said in the other thread I am not a sheep following my master. He is a tremendous man who has done untold good in the lives of many horses people and other animals. He is to be applauded for the good he has done over the years and not condemned for a few acts which may be PERCEIVED to be along the wrong track Non of us was there or party to what really went on. I am a cherry picker there are a lot of ethos's that I will consider most of them are either related to Monty or Natural Horsemanship in some way. I am not brainwashed by any one of them. There are a few that I have had to ignore or find another way as I am sure there are apples on a tree or grains of sand on a beach Bless you Monty for all the good you do please dont take to heart the things we cannot understand
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Post by laurac on May 28, 2012 13:41:39 GMT 1
Thank you Monty for the explanations and for the good things youve done for the horse over the years
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Post by gemwithdiesel on May 28, 2012 13:52:14 GMT 1
Perhaps I'm in the minority who feel uplifted and reassured that this DG is populated by people who will express concern and doubt over anything with which they are uncomfortable. Even if that means being concerned about a video featuring someone who is greatly respected - and indeed, loved. It is not wrong to question something, and Monty has done absolutely what we respect him for - answered the question. Some of us shy away from anyone or any system that to us, resembles a cult with a Guru at the head of it, and the Equestrian world seems hellbent on creating cults/methods and Gurus everywhere you turn these days. The regular questioning of IH here on an IH board has to be the antithesis of "Guru -ism" and is all the more healthy for that. I'm with Voltaire on this one "I might not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it", and I think we've seen that to good effect time and again on this board. There is nothing wrong with being called to account occasionally and having to justify actions. It happens to all of us, and more so to those who find themselves in the public eye. Monty, Kelly and any of us who put themselves forward, or are put forward, as exponents of certain opinions and methods will sometimes find ourselves called to task - and we have to live with that, even if we feel misrepresented or misunderstood on occasion. Better to be called to account by people who have a genuine wish to support and understand someone's actions rather than those who wish to tear down and destroy a reputation. ^^^^^ what Lisa said
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Caroline
Grand Prix Poster
Intermediate Poster
Posts: 2,277
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Post by Caroline on May 28, 2012 13:53:32 GMT 1
Perhaps I'm in the minority who feel uplifted and reassured that this DG is populated by people who will express concern and doubt over anything with which they are uncomfortable. Even if that means being concerned about a video featuring someone who is greatly respected - and indeed, loved. It is not wrong to question something, and Monty has done absolutely what we respect him for - answered the question. Some of us shy away from anyone or any system that to us, resembles a cult with a Guru at the head of it, and the Equestrian world seems hellbent on creating cults/methods and Gurus everywhere you turn these days. The regular questioning of IH here on an IH board has to be the antithesis of "Guru -ism" and is all the more healthy for that. I'm with Voltaire on this one "I might not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it", and I think we've seen that to good effect time and again on this board. There is nothing wrong with being called to account occasionally and having to justify actions. It happens to all of us, and more so to those who find themselves in the public eye. Monty, Kelly and any of us who put themselves forward, or are put forward, as exponents of certain opinions and methods will sometimes find ourselves called to task - and we have to live with that, even if we feel misrepresented or misunderstood on occasion. Better to be called to account by people who have a genuine wish to support and understand someone's actions rather than those who wish to tear down and destroy a reputation. Very well put lisap! The questions must be asked and it is a good thing that they are answered. I remain unconvinced that the context, longer term strategy or character witness can justify what the video shows. When we have these relationships that are based on a desire to improve the other party, we must judge when to be tolerant and when to challenge or state the boundaries of our respect and collaboration. In theory, we would generally like to change people by showing them a gentler way, but sometimes we run into boundary-crossing situations before the other party will listen or we have opportunity to show them. MTA. Since the original thread (in which concerns are raised regarding Monty's work with a TWA horse on stacks) has been locked and not added to the Hall of Fame along with this current thread to which it relates, I reference here the video which has led to both this current thread and the original thread.
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Post by marychick on May 28, 2012 14:19:29 GMT 1
Whilst I agree that we should always be thinking critically about what we feel comfortable with and shouldn't just follow anyone like a "guru" it seems to me that people are unable to find the middle ground between questioning whether someones actions were the most wise in a given situation and absolutely crusifying them having seen 8 mins (or whatever) of footage- even when they are aware of all the good Monty has done over his life and don't know anything about the situation at hand!!
The personal attacks against Monty truely sadden me.... there is so much violence in the world so why are we being so vile to one of the most true forces of good? As for whoever said about Monty singling someone out- how do you think he felt being attacked by a number of people who are supposed to be supporters of his methods?!
I am completey 100 million percent against the way TWH are treated, however, this is the real world and we must recognise that the whole infrastructure will not be shut down so personnally I praise Monty for having the intelligence to recognise that the only way to make any change may well be to do so from the inside. And at least if he can make a small change to the benefit of the horses- its still a change for the better!!! But wheher you agree with him on this or not surely you can see that his intentions were earnest?! How can you condem him when he is trying to do something positive when there are so many people out there being cruel intentionally.
Monty, I for one thank you from the bottom of my heart for all the good you do in this world! For people and for horses! You are a true inspiration to so many people- please know that although sometimes your critics are the ones with the loudest voices there are so many quiet people like me who you admire you completely. You have changed my life for one and I only hope that one day I can look back and say I have helped even a fraction of the horses (and people) you have helped as a result.
So thank you and please don't be disheartened by the criticisms of a few individuals- just remember there is a good chance you have changed their relationship with their horses too, as you have so many others.... we all owe you a thanks.
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