Big Fella-sore feet or tying up?or something else

[laurac]

Big Fella has been doing brilliantly since treated for blood worms affecting his gut, he is becoming a chilled out and affectionate calm horse ;D
Today he was stood by his gate whilst I was mucking out staring at me to take him out to play, so we walked nicely & calmly the mile up the concrete track to the menage and he stayed calm with dogs running at him and 8 cars passing him on a single track no problems, got to menage and did a bit of waking about all nice and calm, headed for home and he kept planting and really didnt want to move a step at all he didnt seem stressed in any way, in the past he got very bad seperation anxiety but now him and biscuit don't even call to each other when i take the big man out and this planting was on the way home not when we left the yard so am a bit bemused
I firstly thought feet as he only had a barefoot trim on wednesday, other times i have recently walked him out were before his trim when his hooves were longer, however there hadnt been any stumbling or ouching on the stones at all
When we got back home he stood happy as larry munching a hay net not at all bothered about going back out with biscuit, i felt his hind end and back and couldnt find anything obvious
The other thought i had was possibly tying up, as I have had 2 previous instances of him planting in the past, first time over 4 yrs ago when i first had him he planted with a trainer riding him in the arena, wouldnt move for toffee and when i he was made to move he bounded across the arena and tried to run through the fence to get away from the situation, looked very stressed and tense
The other time was when i tried to bring him back into work 2 yrs ago all was fab for first hack out in company, 2nd hack he planted and didnt want to move forwards and ended up rearing on the spot, this time he got very sweaty, walked him home where he stood trembling all over, when i called the vets they said it maybe physcological ride him again, but i didnt as i knew something wasnt right, another vet more recently when i spoke to them about this past situation said he sounds like he tied up, i did investigate EPSM and do keep my boys feed low in sugar/starch and he has soaked hay, When googling EPSM which can be hereditory i did find 2 other horses with samber blood lines who have the condition (he has samber blood lines) could be something or nothing
This eve he was very happy and chilled out not at all colicy i do believe that has been sorted but unusually he was not happy having LH picked out and kept kicking it away from me - fine with all other feet
I have read tying up can often happen when a horse hasnt been in work and tends to happen in gentle work when you first do things (like today?)
Any thoughts feet sore or tying up or something else?

I appreciate anyone who has managed to read this far, big glass of wine and cream cakes

[lizpurlo]

How strange - did you check for digital pulses? Maybe he's got something brewing in his LH? - or his RH, which would make him reluctant to pick up his LH? Oh dear, he's such a puzzle, that BF!

[laurac]

Thanks Liz
I didnt think to check his digital pulses, shall do that for sure next time
Just confered with my barefoot trimmer, she has a horse with tying up problems and doesnt think it would be my boys feet which would have caused the sudden planting today as his feet are not that bad at all

She emailed me a list of symptoms for a warmblood who has EPSM, which are;

Poor performance/lack of energy - he was very slow today not marching out as usual i thought he was just uber chilled

Attitude problems under saddle yes hence being passed from pillar to post then px'd at a dealers when i bought him when he was 5yrs

Back soreness always has a sore back from physios / oesteo hence i had him xrayed for kissing spines after worming treatment his pelvis is sorted but his back isnt yet 100%

Abnormal hind limb gait yes drags RH for first few strides always

“Tying up” may have done

Episodic“colic” yes yes yes

Think i should get some tests done but i am reluctant to have a muscle biopsy which would mean slicing him open
Although today is a little worry i feel he can talk to me about how he is feeling without explosives anymore and we are getting there and i will get him fixed, he is doing so well maybe this is the last piece of the puzzle

[jen1]

if the weather has been anything like ours, it was 11 degree's after a frosty snap , could that have something to do with it?

[laurac]

Hi Jen
Thanks for your thoughts
Its been really mild here overnight have only been 2 nights all winter so far where i have had frost on my car windscreen last night it was about 5 degrees and today day time about 10 degrees

[Azrael]

You could try the diet first to see if it makes any difference before going for a biopsy. It's just low starch and some oil which you can build up gradually and some selenium and vitamin e to go with the oil, Selenavite E is good.

I sort of suspected EPSM could be a possibility for Mia but tried changing her diet a bit first rather than getting a biopsy and the diet worked so well that I went with that diet suits her so carry on with it and did without an official diagnosis since it wouldn't really change what I was doing anyway. She has sugarbeet, chaff (Leigh's Senior), small amount of mix to bribe her to eat her feed, selenavite E, linseed and a bit of soya oil. She's fussy about which oils and how much of it she'll eat. Before trying that she was just kind of weak and didn't gain muscle and dragged her front and back toes. The only problem left now is dragging back toes and she has a spavin which is the likely cause of that.

[Deleted]

OK, putting a more positive slant on things...

laurac said:

Poor performance/lack of energy - he was very slow today not marching out as usual i thought he was just uber chilled

Unless it starts to happen more I'd be happy to go with uber chilled, he's a horse who's been in pain for years and is now pretty much free from it so I think you have to expect he's going to behave differently.

laurac said:

Attitude problems under saddle yes hence being passed from pillar to post then px'd at a dealers when i bought him when he was 5yrs

That was before his bloodworm was treated, so tbh for me I'd think it immensely more likely that it was his worm burden and subsequent gut problems causing that.

laurac said:

Back soreness always has a sore back from physios / oesteo hence i had him xrayed for kissing spines after worming treatment his pelvis is sorted but his back isnt yet 100%

Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't your osteo/vet said she thinks the bloodworm has caused gut problems leading to his pelvis and back problems? If so, is it realistic to expect his back to be 100% after a few weeks when the problem has been there for years?

laurac said:

Abnormal hind limb gait yes drags RH for first few strides always

Unless your vet/osteo has said she doesn't think his hindgut problems, pelvis and back pain can cause this then I think that's got to be the most likely cause.

laurac said:

“Tying up” may have done

Or may not have...

laurac said:

Episodic“colic” yes yes yes

Again, what's your vet's view on colic caused by his other problems?

In the nicest possible way you sound very much like someone who is so used to their horse having undiagnosed problems you're always looking for something else (not surprisingly really given your and his past!), but from what I've read of your recent posts I'd have thought you may very well have found the key to his problems and of course it will take time for everything to fall into place when potentially he's had this problem for years. I wouldn't be jumping in to any more tests or treatments for a good while, certainly not until your vet thinks he's completely over the bloodworm.

On the basis his bloodworms could account for every point other than planting... how about the fact that he was enjoying himself and didn't want to go back in? It's not unheard of y'know
;D

[mandal]

Jan 8, 2012 9:34:09 GMT 1 @michellep said:

On the basis his bloodworms could account for every point other than planting... how about the fact that he was enjoying himself and didn't want to go back in? It's not unheard of y'know
;D

This crossed my mind. I wouldn't panic yet. Always good to be aware though.
Having said that, you know him so well that if you felt something was wrong... x

[laurac]

Yes I am a paranoid horse owner I do believe!
Walked him out today and found out the reason, he just doenst want to go home back to his field!! ;D
So you were right Michelle & Mandal

He stood by his gate asking to come out to play again after i had been mucking out for an hour, was fine with feet picked out and off we went

Very uber chilled again plodding along, did 10 mins walk trot in menage all great, then as soon as we left the menage and turned for home he planted! Got him to walk on couple more plants got him to walk on then i turned him to walk back to the menage and no planting whatsover, so there was my answer, soon as he planted when turned for home again I upped my energy and slapped the lungeline on my wellies, had to do it couple of times then he ploded back home ;D
Here is the ploddy horse on way back home short vid clip

Back at stables, 2 birds came flying out of one of the stables over our heads made me jump out of my skin by my newly chilled boy didn't bat an eyelid ;D Its going to take a bit of getting used to his new personality! but i'm loving it ;D

[Deleted]

Lol Glad he's feeling well, it's a compliment to your schooling sessions that he's eager to carry on bless him

[kafee]

You cruel owner: putting him back in the field when all he wants to do is stay and play! Onward and upward Laura, the sky's the limit now. Are you up for the challenge BF is throwing at you now?

[mandal]

Ha! He's going to wear you out now by the sound of it. ;D

[Lulu]

I was going to suggest that maybe he's enjoying himself so much he doesn't want to go home. That must be music to your ears to hear those words !! Seems I was right. I have had some horses plant when going home in hand lol, they want to carry on exploring. My coming up 2yr old colt was like that the other day, walks out fast, but comes back slowly and hesistantly, and keeps giving the view behind him a wistful look LOL !! Horses were bred to roam and wander and look for more food I am so pleased for you and BF

[laurac]

Thank you everyone for your lovely comments, getting to know the 'new BF' is weird! This horse spent the first yr of ownership terrified of the headcollar and being caught was awful tied up and so anxious all the time so now having the opposite asking to go out and play is very strange but absolutely wonderful! ;D
Have just arranged to collect a friend and her horse next weekend for a very long venture out (her riding her horse me leading BF) mostly soft edges of the farm fields with some country lanes, cant wait
Here is my lovely BF this morning lurking at the gate staring me out whilst I muck the stables out! Take me out mummy ! pleeasse ;D
Think someone is going to be rather disappointed tomorrow when his mum has to go to work rather than play!

[lizpurlo]

Fantastic Laura, how amazing for you to have a laid-back BF after all these years! Next weekend's trek sounds great, hope it goes well. xx