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Post by Kelly Marks on Dec 30, 2011 16:45:36 GMT 1
Yes, it's that time of year again! I get the chance to write some articles so spend lots of time on the IHDG getting as much help as I can! I thought I and RAs should put together something for IH Mag (and new RAs) about making sure owners have realistic expectations of what can be achieved with a horse - not written with any sarcastic tone - which can be tricky as sometimes owners have rather unrealistic expectations.
The more experienced you are with horses the more likely you are to get caught out by these (the old 'curse of knowledge' again - forgetting what it was like not to know). Let's say a 'professional' states they can have your horse 'ready for you to ride in 8 weeks' - really you need to say to said professional if you have never ridden a horse before.
The owner has to understand the difference between their horse being 'taught to load' and being taught 'extreme loading' which entails trying to get a horse into a too small, unstable trailer, with people rushing back and forth over ramp and 'too busy' to turn car engine off.
Clearly an answer is to refuse to do horses whose owners don't take part in the training - but is that a realistic expectation on the trainer's part?
I've heard so many stories of bad and incompetent 'trainers' but of course it cuts both ways.
Discuss!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2011 19:01:10 GMT 1
I think those are good examples of why I don't like the idea of sending a horse away for training. Loading, riding, leading etc are all more useful to the owner if they can be done safely in the horse's normal environment, by doing the training at the horse's home the owner is more involved and the trainer can see how the horse is actually be asked to do things.
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Post by jennyf on Dec 30, 2011 19:22:53 GMT 1
Well, it might depend on what sort of home the horse is going back to after the 'training'. A knowledgeable home with considerable expertise and horse know-how would be able to carry on with the training. It's always down to the owner to put some time and effort into finding out as much as possible about a training yard before even thinking about sending a horse away to so-called 'experts'. Go on good recommendations perhaps. Go and have a loook round and see horses being worked.
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Post by Kelly Marks on Dec 30, 2011 19:28:45 GMT 1
My article is intended from the point of view of good trainers - it's more a counter balance for all the 'I sent my horse away and the trainer was so bad' - it's looking at things from the trainers point of view - i..e. one shouldn't make any assumptions about the owners experience and expectations. How much does need to be laid out for the owner?
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Post by mandal on Dec 30, 2011 19:36:59 GMT 1
There are so many ways to train, so many cues, so many interpretations and so many ways of general attitude if the owner isn't in tune with the trainer what happens when the horse gets home and much of what it has just been taught is no longer relevant to it? I'd approach it from the horses point of view. I'm certainly no trainer but that would resonate with me and really get me seeing how confused my horse could become if I don't understand and follow on in a similar manner to the trainer using the same cues taught etc.  |
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Post by kjr on Dec 30, 2011 20:24:32 GMT 1
Sounds like excellent communication is the key to this.
Both sides need to be able to express clearly what they want/ can do when working with the horse in question and be able and prepared to listen carefully to the other.
Owner working alongside the trainer, taking part in the training - absolutely.
As the professional perhaps the trainer needs, and should be expected to, take the lead as it were .... Wow just think of the skills they need - people skills as well as great horsemanship.
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Post by ladyndibs on Dec 30, 2011 21:22:22 GMT 1
There are so many ways to train, so many cues, so many interpretations and so many ways of general attitude if the owner isn't in tune with the trainer what happens when the horse gets home and much of what it has just been taught is no longer relevant to it? I'd approach it from the horses point of view. I'm certainly no trainer but that would resonate with me and really get me seeing how confused my horse could become if I don't understand and follow on in a similar manner to the trainer using the same cues taught etc. I agree, after having a couple of things pointed out that I was doing wrong/in a confusing way for my horse I found it really useful to have it explained from a horse perspective, what's more it made sense in my head as well which makes any training easier to apply. |
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Post by jen526 on Dec 30, 2011 21:53:39 GMT 1
That's almost "how long is a piece of string" scenario. Some owners are more capable than they believe, others know they are brilliant and its all the horses fault... The owners are just as individual as the horses, what works for one won't necessarily work for the next. The good trainers can give not only the appropriate training for the horse, but also the right method for the handler too.
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Post by sarahbing on Dec 31, 2011 18:38:27 GMT 1
This will be an excellent article. I have long thought as an outside observer, that the RA's job is as much about managing people's expectations and getting them to reflect on their own capabilities as much as it is about training the horse.
I think many trainers focus on the latter and this is where the misunderstandings often arise.
'Unrealistic expectations' is one of those phrases that makes me react! I honestly believe (and I know many on here will not agree and tell me, which is what is so great about this forum) that most things are achievable for most people with a crucial caveat - that they are prepared to pay the price/make the necessary sacrifices to make it happen.
Take your example, Kelly, of the trainer saying they could have the horse 'ready to ride' in 8 weeks, but the owner failing to mention that they had never sat on a horse before. Well what if the trainer were to take both horse and owner, and the owner was prepared to give up work, family etc. and train 8-10 hours a day? Is it achievable then to produce a pair that could work together? (Heather/Derek I would love to hear your views, and where is Ms Spielburg? It would make a great TV challenge!!)
And if the trainer just trained the horse, then has he or she failed in their job? The horse may have had 8 weeks outstanding training, but has it been trained for life with that owner or has it been trained to the trainer's standards? Understanding this difference requires compromise on the trainer's part as what he or she would like to achieve may not be the best for that horse in the long run.
In these times we live in a world of instant gratification. We no longer have to save for holidays, cars, etc. as we have instant access to loans and credit cards. We are not used to waiting for results, we want instant results. We expect teachers to deliver results (academic as well as horsey) and forget that we are the other half of that equation, and without our input, we cannot expect results. There is a school of thought that believes there is no such thing as teaching, only learning. That it is the 'teacher's' job to instill a thirst for knowledge and a passion for the subject, and the pupil will do the rest!
There are no shortcuts with horses, or at least if people take them, they have to be undone by someone else at a later date, so horses make us wait, work hard and be patient. Sometimes we have to take a step backwards or sideways in order to take two towards our goal. This is what has to be explained to the less experienced owner. Not that their goals are unrealistic, but that every goal has a price or sacrifice attached.
We need to remind ourselves every time we see a successful equine/human partnership, that that is not something that can be bought, or done for us by someone else, but something that we can achieve provided we are willing to pay the price
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Post by Kelly Marks on Jan 1, 2012 13:43:59 GMT 1
Hi Sarah
You have written such a good piece there I am now nominating YOU to write the article - ensuring it will indeed be excellent!
Kx
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Post by KimT on Jan 1, 2012 23:27:03 GMT 1
I must agree with Sarah and I would add that the trainer would need to find out specifically what the owner is after. Kind of a requirements gathering exercise. There is no point teaching the horse grand prix dressage if the owner doesnt want to do it. I would hope any trainer would ask me or see me ride to understand how I ride e.g. a friend of mine has offered me a ride on her horse who is trained in a french classical way and I bet I would ask him to do something by accident because I don't know which aids to use.
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Post by BJMM on Jan 2, 2012 10:04:30 GMT 1
Wow Sarah! What an excellent reply! Along the lines of how I was thinking, but couldn't have put it so eloquently and succinctly.
I have always felt that it is very important to me to have a trainer who feels the same way about horses as I do. A couple of years ago I had some lessons with a well known local dressage rider, with whom a friend was having lessons and had strongly recommended. This lady was very pleasant, friendly, encouraging and supportive, but taught from a competitive dressage point of view and had, I felt, unrealistic expectations of Blaze and I started to feel pushed into doing things that I really didn't agree with.
When it got to the point that I was crying and apologising to Blaze after a lesson, I called a halt to the whole thing. I haven't had any lessons since but have just got to know a new instructor through my RDA volunteering. Having watched her teach and from talking to her, I feel that she will be much more in tune with myself and my girls. We are going to start lessons in Spring.
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Post by Catrin on Jan 2, 2012 10:27:46 GMT 1
Remember Wendy-from-France came to do a workshop with RAs and MRPCH students when I did my exams. She gave us an amazing insight into how we and the client view one another and how we and the client fit into one of several different personality/expectation patterns.
I remember Rosie seeing herself as one type of individual and realising why she didn't understand or meet the needs of certain type of client. I too saw myself as the person who "likes to understand what I'm doing before I do it", and my YO at the time, as the person who "doesn't care about the theory until AFTER she has experienced the results".
Not very helpful to you I know, as the outline here is vague, but still needs to be considered when offering a client a solution. Sandra, Linda and Cindy Gould were also at the workshop, they may have remembered more.
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Post by sarahbing on Jan 2, 2012 12:00:14 GMT 1
Thank you Kelly, BJM and Kim ;D Glad you appreciated my slightly random thoughts!!
I have been in comms with Kelly and am going to attempt to organise these thoughts into an article for the LP. Your input will be invaluable, so please keep posting, or pm me if you would prefer.
I would love to hear your experiences either as a client or as a trainer. What made for an outstandingly helpful/successful experience, what you would change if you could do it all again.
Catrin, this sounds like an excellent presentation from Wendy. Was it similar to the Belbin type of personality types when building successful teams?
Look forward to hearing from you. Thanks in advance x
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Amanda Seater
Grand Prix Poster
Listen to your horse you may be surprised what he may tell you about yourself
Posts: 3,866
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Post by Amanda Seater on Jan 2, 2012 12:27:57 GMT 1
Sarah - I agree with you too.
Just last night someone said - I am sending my horse to you for a week for some training to which my reply was yes I understand why you want to and I can give you a head start with him but the condition is that the following week you will come and work with him intensively so that we are both being fair to the horse, you are not wasting your money.
closely followed by "what do you expect me to achieve in this week specifically"
I have to add here that there is an ongoing relationship with this client and horse.
I think it is important that I truly understand the expectations of the client and I have learned / developed questioning techniques that allow this. BUT I also ensure the client understands possible limitations and has a firm reality check if needs be!
If I lose clients because of being realistic then so be it for the sake of the horse and not least my sanity. I like to sleep at night. AND I LOATHE ANY conflict. I would prefer to run a mile from it, as when it does happen, I tend to re-live it on and off for years.
Past experiences have shown that that careful questioning and an understanding by both parties is essential or all sorts of problems can arise.
A little bit in writing is useful but even this can be miss understood!
It is a mine field out there and the poor horse is caught in the middle and often if things go wrong the trainer gets the blame as the owner often won't admit their short comings- such as applications of the aids or simply that thier personal energy levels are - well - not mine!!
A simple one would be- I expect a horse to stand still to be mounted - and I can even have this on video to prove it as clients often forget teh positives they have seen . So horse won't stand still to be mounted by client as the client doesn't yet have their "personal tools " developed enough to achieve the same. IF as trainer you haven't taken this into account and talked about such scenarios with the client it is very possible that the trainer that gets called incompetant/ a lier and the poor horse gets confused or worse gets the wrath of the client!
It is quite tricky a thing to be able to tell a client in a positive fashion that they are perhaps not as competant as they thought they were!!
My advise to horse/ people trainers is to choose your clients carefully, stick to your guns and develope VERY THICK SKIN. ( the latter is not easy for me)
WOW what a ramble!- sorry !
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