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Post by katylou on Dec 30, 2011 13:10:12 GMT 1
There's a new horse on a yard near me, and last week he put our farrier in hospital.
He is fine to have his feet picked up, handled and picked out by anyone on the yard, but he literally quivers with terror when he see's a farrier.
Has anyone got any suggestions for helping with this?
My feeling is that he isn't afraid of the farrier himself, but of some part of the process, or maybe the furnace in the van?
Without having the farrier there (and risk upsetting the horse and potentially causing more injury) how would you go about showing him that it's ok?
I've suggested to the owner that if the farrier is so much of a problem could she not keep him barefoot, but she says that he has to be shod all round as a requirement for competing.
Kathy x
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Post by mandal on Dec 30, 2011 14:02:54 GMT 1
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calekio
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 1,235
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Post by calekio on Dec 30, 2011 14:21:43 GMT 1
I'm going to watch this thread as i also have a pony terrfiied of the farrier. (going to have a read on those websites soon)
But tigga is a miniature, so barefoot and only trimmed. He is actually better if i just tie him up to the gate than if a hold him (he can then get behind me, take off with me, rear up and has actually kicked me with front feet)
We tried both male & female farriers and he is better with female but even with her he refused to allow her to get onto his left side.. and we also found he is quite terrified of farrier chaps and that by getting farrier to take them off he is very very slightly better.
I still have yet to get my new farrier to trim him (left old farrier after how he was handling some of my ponies) but from what i've seen of new farrier i'm confident he'll be able to trim tigga.. who when approuched by farrier will shake from nose to tail, rearing up boxing out with front feet and try to sit down when they try to pick up his hind feet.
I'd love to just be able to get him stand quietly for a farrier... without shaking like a leaf.
I've no idea where his fear has come from as well, as he's not had a bad experience, but is like it with a lot of people he doesn't know.. he is 'thought' (vets couldn't make there minds up!) to be vision impaired and i'm sure that doesn't help.. he is getting better with the vet (female only though, he is terrified of men in general) and oddly enough he is slightly calmer when away from home as well.
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Post by mandal on Dec 30, 2011 17:11:23 GMT 1
I still have yet to get my new farrier to trim him (left old farrier after how he was handling some of my ponies) but from what i've seen of new farrier i'm confident he'll be able to trim tigga.. who when approuched by farrier will shake from nose to tail, rearing up boxing out with front feet and try to sit down when they try to pick up his hind feet. I'd love to just be able to get him stand quietly for a farrier... without shaking like a leaf. I've no idea where his fear has come from as well, as he's not had a bad experience, but is like it with a lot of people he doesn't know.. he is 'thought' (vets couldn't make there minds up!) to be vision impaired and i'm sure that doesn't help.. he is getting better with the vet (female only though, he is terrified of men in general) and oddly enough he is slightly calmer when away from home as well. Toby my mini suddenly became very resistive with his feet generally and aggressive and very fearful of the farrier. I switched to the trimmer for him who trimmed a couple of my other horses and after some careful (advance and retreat and reward)work he was fine again. We suspect that his hoof may have been twisted to control him from pulling away. The trimmer told me that some experienced farriers (and trimmers) have ways to control using surreptitious forms of restraint such as this. Of course minis hooves are so small they can be cupped in a hand and observers may not notice if any twisting etc. is being applied. This of course may not apply to your pony calekio and many farriers do not do this sort of thing. Over trimming, causing soreness is another possibility along with lifting feet/legs too high. This is a particular problem with minis I believe. I've had a few farriers who always say they don't need a trim or they don't like doing minis... it is a long way down and space for manoeuvre is restricted for some strapping blokes. The smell of farriers (and vets) can be a big factor once a fear is established and there can be lots of other associations such as place of trim, who is there etc. Perhaps using another area and having a horse mate present might help (or not lol). Also, getting the new farrier to work slowly with lots of breaks putting the hooves down, introduce himself with some scratches etc. first and perhaps just pick out for one visit and then do minimal trims. If other horses are being shod/trimmed at the same time it's easier (and cheaper) to get the farrier to spend time building a rapport and giving the pony more positive associations. Perhaps the farrier has a rag he/she can give you with the smell on to work with in between visits if you think smell could be a factor. Sarah Weston's book No fear, no force is a great resource for ways of working with nervous or frightened horses. www.logicalhorsemanship.co.uk/publications.htmlBetween visits I'd go back to the beginning with hoof handling using advance and retreat with reward and handle his feet daily doing small amounts and rebuilding his confidence. I rasp my minis myself now with occasional farrier visits. I find it so much easier and less stressful and I think they do too.  |
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Post by jen526 on Dec 30, 2011 18:13:10 GMT 1
Hi Katylou Sort of a blanket answer, but having experienced this problem, I hope this helps Smell, posture, mannerisms, clothing and equipment can all come into it, when you think about it, there is quite a lot in the picture with a farrier. Personally, I would break it down into the smallest of pieces, introduce them one by one, then start putting them back together. The chaps (if you can borrow a farriers pair that would be great) or any flappy chaps and a smelly farriers rag as already suggested - if he doesn't have a rag, lend the farrier a towel or something to carry with him for a week or so to pick up the distinctive "forge smell". The farriers tools are metal and clink, have you noticed how they handle the tools, whipping them out quickly and often give them a spin in the hand!. A metal file is easy to use. The stand - a metal garden parasol stand is sturdy enough to train with, I asked my farrier to show me on a good horse exactly where he wanted my horses legs to go, and how does he hold and support them, its quite fascinating really. Watch and listen to the farrier and try to duplicate his moves (without shoeing of course!). Good farriers are only too happy to help if it makes their job easier. When you can rattle the tools, place the feet on a stand in any position you wish, (incrementally) ask complete strangers to do it, even non-horsey ones, but only when the horse is ready. Last but far from least, be really nice to your farrier, offer to pay him for his time not feet done & ask for each hoof to be put back down after xx seconds, I had a stop watch on mine - he was allowed 60 seconds then the foot was to be placed back down before any resistance occurred, he even went so far as to remove his rain coat and chaps on a very windy/wet day (he was soaked, we all were) but it worked a treat and now she is one of his politest clients. However, we are bare foot which is of course a lot easier to put on a short stop watch. When you break it down it will be interesting to learn which/how many elements are stressful for the horse. Please please do keep yourself and others safe, good footing for all, hard hats, gloves etc.. Also seriously worth considering having an RA out, especially if you have one injured farrier already. Good luck |
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nomdeac
Intermediate Poster
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Post by nomdeac on Dec 30, 2011 18:20:34 GMT 1
Just another quick suggestion. Do you know of a farrier locally like ours where you have to queue in the wagon for your turn to be shod? Perhaps you sould start by taking him to somewhere like that and giving him a nice feed when he got there in his wagon and then gradually desensitise him that way. It may take a while but it would be worth it.
I wonder if you could create a farrier type smell by keeping the hooves trimmed off other horses and burning them (in a safe way) near the sensitive horse, so that he can become accoustomed to that very distincitve and horride smell in a safe way. (Just an idea)
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Post by jen526 on Dec 30, 2011 18:46:56 GMT 1
I like the burning of toe clippings idea, horse ones of course! now where did we put our old gas BBQ?? ;D
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Post by megant on Jan 2, 2012 10:53:09 GMT 1
Lots of good answers here already.
I would definitely agree with Jen and look at every aspect of the farriers visit and train each one at a time.
Also I have found it really helps for the farrier to take the horse for a walk on on lunge line and dually - or for the farrier to walk and someone else to lead the horse after them to start with. Gradually let them get closer together and every now and then the farrier could stroke the horse and walk off again with horse following. If the horse is terrified even of the sight of the farrier they need to be confident with them around before they start touching feet or anything. Yes your farrier may well look at you as if you are bonkers and you need to pay the farrier for their time as it may well be a while before they are actually shoeing the horse.
Good luck
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Post by megant on Jan 2, 2012 10:56:45 GMT 1
Just reread your OP and two thing seem to contradict each other. You say he quivers with fear when he sees the farrier but that you don't think he's actually scared of the farrier himself? What makes you think it isn't the farrier. (I'm not being arguementative - it just doesn't quite make sense to me!)
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calekio
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 1,235
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Post by calekio on Jan 2, 2012 15:00:50 GMT 1
What are people's opinions on having a fearful horse trimmed with his head in a bucket? I've always been taught (and never remember who by!) that this is an unacceptable way of getting a horse over his fears.
Yes i also have a lot problems with farrier's insisting the minis hoof can reach his shoulder! And then wonder why the little one is rearing up at them! My new farrier is great and mine have all accepted him and if they start to figit he just gives them a minute to settle down and then thats all fine.
Tigga's fear of farriers is very very deep seated.. i also trim some of mine myself.. normally just inbetween farrier visits to keep them tidy and make them go a bit longer between visits (with the amount i have i can't afford to have them all trimmed every 6-8 weeks unless medically they need it, i have a few who do need it and thats fine.. but most go very well with my way) i can trim Tigga myself without any issues.. i tied tigga to the gate the other week when farrier was out, just to be around and the moment even the van pulled up he was on his hind legs!! They mostly ignored him as not to feed into his fear and at the end just tried to say hello, got him to sniff his hand and that was about as far as he got. He use to be like it with vets as well but gradually getting better.. but injections are a nightmare so last year when due i just put his head in a bucket, warned the vet of what he 'could' do and told her not to go anywhere near his neck and he was fine, figited it a little but compaired to the full vertical rear, boxing at us... figiting is acceptable! lol However Tigga also responds to clicker training very well and i clicker trained him to accept me poking him with a needleless syringe... i just need to figure out how to clicker train him to a farrier..... :/
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Post by mandal on Jan 2, 2012 15:12:55 GMT 1
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