Horrrible accident horses and dogs again!

[holi]

My friend had a horrible accident at the weekend - she and another gilr were riding past a house and two GSDs came flying over the fence at them! Both horses went down and one was badly cut as she went into a ditch. Her horse was luckily unscathed and he is 29! She is very badly bruised and shaken.

I'm sorry people but we have several BAD dogs near us who will jump out barking, all teeth bared and go for horses, dogs and people. The breeds?? - GSD, rottweilers and collies. I have now known so many of these over the years and amongst the collies some have been in full time work so no excuse for underused - in fact the local famer has to keep his shut up as they have attacked so many people including his own daughter! It can't be all the owners faults - they are bred to defend and attak in defence. I don't know the answer as these two GSDs went to classes and compete in agility as well - in must be in them.

[holi]

I forgot to add that last year they came over the fence at me and my dog - terrifying - I just screamed and they ran away again although I must admit when I had to pass the house again I did carry a very large stick and would have used it to defend my old girl.

[spring]

Yup it's the main reason I carry a schooling whip when out hacking. I've got no qualms about giving them a smack - sounds awful but it's dangerous to everyone and if they got kicked they'll come out worse. Swithland woods is terrible for dog chases and attacks. I once had a cocker spaniel chase spring for ages until a kind passerby rugby tackled it. I can't understand why people let their dog off the lead if they can't call it back

[Amanda Seater]

oh my lord I DREAD that sort of thing. I hope they are recovering well.

[rosemaryhannah]

It is the owners - no dog who might even look at a horse or person in the wrong way should be free to go running after them. Collies (I love them to bits) chase - they are chasing dogs. None of mine were ever aggressive - and none were out alone ever either!

[nestle]

Hi.. I have 4 dogs. Therefore i class myself as a dog lover. Thats another story.. But Siena and I got chased by a staffie x 18 months ago, I came off cus the saddle slipped, and it could have been a very nasty accident. I was just a bit battered but ok. The dog proceeded to chase Si for a further 10 mins, biting her legs. She isnt a kicker and wouldnt kick it. So I did! The bloke couldnt call the dog off, and tried to avoid giving me his name and address. I got it. But the law states. "No dog should be off a lead in a public place' Not too many people know this. But if there is a loose dog that causes an accident. You can sue! I would have done but there wasnt any damage apart from psycological. Si is now terriffied of a dogs. She knows which dogs are 'hers' and is scared of all others.
My dogs are NEVER loose in a public place..
I detest selfish dog owners. It isnt the dog, its the owner!!
Sorry for Rant... subject close to my heart!
C x

[naria]

It's a horrible thing to happen but I do think the problem is the owners in nearly all cases.

My YO has GSDs & they are lovely dogs - well-mannered, trustworthy, well-trained & under control. As well as the two she currently has she's taken in & rehomed others, every dog that leaves her hands is the same as her own. They are intelligent, determined dogs that need to be physically & mentally active & a handler they respect. Rottweilers are similar in many ways & again I know plenty that are lovely dogs that are a pleasure to be around.

[julz]

Dec 14, 2010 20:35:26 GMT 1 nestle said:

But the law states. "No dog should be off a lead in a public place

Well that's parks, beaches and the like out...... So where can a dog be off-lead?

TBH, Im not sure that GDSs Rotties and Collies are bred to defend and attack... after all... these are usually trained into the dog..not bred into it. All dogs have a chase mechanism, it's weather the owner can stop the dog from chasing and control it which is the usual question. It's more than likely that somewhere in the dogs life (be it puppy hood or whilst growing up) that the owner has done something in his body language that the dog has picked up on.... (or the usual... encouraged the dog to chase whatever animal it is....)

The probable reason why you have so many "bad" dogs near you is because the owners cant be bothered to train their dogs to any good standard.... so the dogs can generally do as they please.. which isnt good news for anyone passing by..

You need to report this incident to the police.

Chasing Collies... sorry but Collies are not chasers.. they are Herders. Slight difference. Now that is in-bred in them..... but as true working dogs, they are possibly the only breed to be born wanting to herd (work) which is probably why they are so keen to learn and quick to learn too.

[jinglejoys]

Its not the dogs its the owners.They keep these dogs to guard their property but don't teach them the rules.
My dogs have never been let off the lead unless on my property.I hope your friend has filled in the BHS incident form

[bertie666]

Dec 14, 2010 23:33:28 GMT 1 julz said:

Dec 14, 2010 20:35:26 GMT 1 nestle said:

But the law states. "No dog should be off a lead in a public place

Well that's parks, beaches and the like out...... So where can a dog be off-lead?

TBH, Im not sure that GDSs Rotties and Collies are bred to defend and attack... after all... these are usually trained into the dog..not bred into it. All dogs have a chase mechanism, it's weather the owner can stop the dog from chasing and control it which is the usual question. It's more than likely that somewhere in the dogs life (be it puppy hood or whilst growing up) that the owner has done something in his body language that the dog has picked up on.... (or the usual... encouraged the dog to chase whatever animal it is....)

The probable reason why you have so many "bad" dogs near you is because the owners cant be bothered to train their dogs to any good standard.... so the dogs can generally do as they please.. which isnt good news for anyone passing by..

You need to report this incident to the police.

Chasing Collies... sorry but Collies are not chasers.. they are Herders. Slight difference. Now that is in-bred in them..... but as true working dogs, they are possibly the only breed to be born wanting to herd (work) which is probably why they are so keen to learn and quick to learn too.

Voice of reason!

Where precisely does it state that dogs cannot be off leads in public places? Good luck enforcing that.

You cannot generalise breeds in that way OP, it is nurture over nature not the other way around. The problem is often people that buy GSD and rotties are after something big and scary, treat them that way then wonder why they behave the way they have inadvertently trained them to.

And as Julz said, collies dont chase they herd, if they are working collies they ought to have been trained not to bite as well. That is more likely to be a territorial thing than a breed issue.

[BJMM]

I agree with Julz and Bertie. My parents bred and showed collies for many years. One Border Collie pup we had was herding our cats at 3 months old! But he didn't chase them or bite. Most, if not all, 'bad' behaviour in dogs is down to negligent owners.
I have two Labs near me that shoot out of their drive and get under Blaze's legs, barking. Fortunately, Blaze is utterly bombproof and unbothered by them but it will be a different story if they do it to Jas!! I have complained to the owners but they keep forgetting to shut the gate.

[julz]

Some collies esp working ones will nip the sheeps legs... it's done through frustration on the dogs part (if sheep isnt running fast enough for the dog or maybe being a bit thick)...mainly because they are so highly strung, they really cant contain themselves... I've never seen a Collie actually bite anyone/anything in the way you would see any other breed bite...

The only place I know a dog MUST be on lead (and under control) is on the High Street.. any dog off lead can be fined on the spot.

Wee Gripe - I wish people wouldnt walk thier dogs on a flexi lead with it stretched out..on the streets.. Saw a lady doing that yesterday, while she picked her way over ice, the dog had freedom on the lead... I wonder how quickly she could reel it in, should it decide to cross the road.....

[Dragonmaster]

I'm not too sure if it is entirely nurture and not nature - but I do agree it is the owners responsibility and if they know their dog has a tendency to chase they need to be extra vigilant.
My dog - English Bull Terrier X something (probably Collie) - is not good with livestock. He is well trained and well behaved and loving. He has never so much as growled at a person (well, one nasty bin man, but I reckon the dog had the right idea about him and was protecting us).
I cannot take him with me to the field when i do the horses, he gets a 'look in his eye' and he will go for them. He will come back to recall* though, but it is too much of a problem to be bothering with so I don't take him. Same with sheep or cattle, If we ever saw any in the distance when out he was straight back on his lead - he can't be trusted in this situation.
This is his nature. I have tried for years to train it out of him and it doesn't work. The main thing is he won't run and chase immediately so if riders approach and I say 'sit. stay' he will, but he still looks as though he wants to eat the horses.

* actually he used to come to recall - now he can't hear me unless i'm about 6 ft away - but he cant run much now either - bless!

[mandal]

Utterly terrifying and I'm so glad things weren't worse. Hope they all make a full recovery.

I'm terrified of bigger dogs (most dogs actually) for precisely this reason, barking and snarling in gateways and rushing out threatening to bite. I don't blame the dogs they are learning that it works ('intruders' go away) so lets do it again and again. The owners have to take responsibility in my book and if they cannot train their dogs they should restrain them.

[rj]

We've taken on adult rescue Rotties and GSD's for 20 years (blimey, it really is now!).
The only 'bad' one - bless her - was a RottiexCollie who was a dog killer/chaser. Totally untrainable, and finally killed after escaping from garden no dog had got out of before, and hit by a car as she tried to attack an elderly JRT with an even more elderly owner.
All the others have responded to the same principles as horses - firm, fair, consistent training. They usually arrive thinking they are top dog, and it can take some time to allow their paws to be touched, then tummies rubbed. Then they have their food only when they are told they can eat it, and have to allow it being taken away too.
They are not allowed on any furniture which we sit on or to be higher up than us, unless we choose to sit on the floor with them.
We do this with all of our dogs, and then they are allowed off the lead unless we see people walking without dogs or who have dogs on the lead, when we put ours on too.
It may not be the only or the best way, but it has worked with them all, so far. If anything goes a bit haywire (possessive behaviour usually) it's because I have lost the consistency and let them think they can take the initiative.
Our dogs bark at anyone walking or riding past our house, because there is no footpath and they think it's our property. We don't want to discourage this! But they are far enough back and behind secure fencing, not to cause a problem.